Business Strategy For The Individual Design Model w/ Jim Crowell
Jim Crowell, CEO of OPEX Fitness, joins us today to talk business strategy. His background in Finance and Economics led him to play in the hedge fund world for years before successfully managing multiple fitness facilities in Pittsburgh. Today we discuss things like human behavior, storytelling, and implementing systems and strategies to make the individual design model work.
There's a lot of great dialogue in this episode that makes me confident in saying you'd be SILLY to not listen to this one if you're a fitness professional.
People don't always want leaner, faster, and stronger. They want to be happier. How can you give that feeling to more people in your gym? We discuss the three pieces to the community, thoughts on how artificial intelligence will affect the fitness industry, social media strategy for coaches and gym owners, along so much more.
(4:40) - Coaches and gym owners want futures
(8:57) - Thoughts on maximizing the group fitness model
(10:13) - Human behavior
(12:55) - How to make the individual design model work
(16:20) - Gym owners — providing growth for coaches
(24:15) - Storytelling and filling your business model
(27:32) - Communicating the value of individualized design
(31:26) - Assessment and data to communicate results
(35:00) - Lead generation strategy
(39:00) - Automation and knowing your customers
(44:40) - Social media
(48:36) - Your story
(50:50) - Sales process
(59:08) - Systems and strategy
(1:10:35) - How will AI affect the fitness industry
(1:14:45) - Long term patch for coaching
(1:21:42) - 3 pieces to community building
Resources we may have talked about:
The Lean Startup
It’s Your Ship
How you can connect with Jim:
Hey, this is Jim Kroll and you're listening to the airborne mind show.
Hello everyone. This is Ms. [inaudible]. Thank you so much for joining me today and welcome back to the show, whether this is your first, second, 10th, or 30th episode. I appreciate you tuning in your time, your energy, your attention, and your ears mean the world. To me, without you listening, This show would not be where it is today. So once again, thank you. Before we get started, the biggest compliment that you can give is by leaving a review on iTunes, you have no idea how much that helps in terms of rankings, bringing more awareness to the show, and bringing on more interesting guests. So if you could take two or three minutes, not while you're driving, but take two or three minutes, go ahead, leave a review. It would be greatly appreciated. Also be sure to head over to airborne mind.com, where you can check out some free resources and the full show notes there as well.
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Today, we discuss things like human behavior, storytelling, and implementing systems and strategies to make the individual design model work. I still feel like there's a ton of questions that come up around how you can make a profession out of the ID model, whether you are a gym owner, you're a coach, maybe you're a physical therapist and you own your own private practice. If you're working with humans on an individual basis and you find value and fulfillment out of that one-on-one connection you know, I think that this episode is extremely valuable. There's a lot of truth data and just great dialogue in this episode that makes me confident in saying that you'd be silly not to listen to this one. If you're in the profession and delivery of fitness, you know, people don't always want leaner faster, and stronger. They want to be happier.
And so we talk, how can you give that feeling to more people in your gym? We discuss things like the three pieces to community thoughts on how artificial intelligence will affect the entire fitness industry, social media strategy for coaches and gym owners, setting up a sales process, how to fill that funnel with the right people along with so much more check out the show notes for a more detailed look. And I also linked up how you can connect with Jim through Instagram, Facebook, and email if that's something that you want to do after listening to this. But yeah, I hope you enjoy this episode as always, and more importantly, hope you do something with it, Jim, welcome to the show.
Hey, thanks so much for having me miss by. This is going to be fun.
Yeah, I'm excited. I saw a little clip on Facebook where you were talking about kind of the realistic point of view that we need to be looking at the profession of fitness at this point. And what's kind of going on in the industry where we have people who love what they do. They, they can do meaningful work, but you know, you have a coach that's getting paid, let's say $20 an hour, and they're working for 20 classes a week. At the end of the day, you were able to kind of provide the math for that and be like, you know, is this sustainable? Is this providing a place for coaches to kind of grow? So I'm excited to dig into some strategy because you know, building businesses and mentoring coaches seems to be like, it's your forte. Yeah.
Yeah. The just to quickly touch on the coaching piece. I, I really like to view business, you know, from the top down and when you're looking at a business, I think what we're seeing specifically in the micro gym, whether it be group, individual, personal training, any of it, you're seeing it mature. And because it's maturing, you're seeing a lot more competition, but you're also seeing there is more talent in the field and the coaching side and that talent is going to demand, increase in pay really what they want is a future. So if you can't provide somebody with a future, by the way, yourself included as an owner, then how in the world are you going to continue to innovate with this field because it's moving really quickly.
Absolutely. And we'll unpack that a little bit, but before we do give me a little bit of background. I know you mentioned that you were in the financial arena for quite a few years before you got into coaching and into you know, the fitness industry.
Yeah. I w I've kind of been a coach in some capacity for my entire life you know, coaching soccer teams, coaching baseball teams, even in my high school years. And I've always loved the mentor side of it and the learning side of it, whether I'm the one that's learning or teaching somebody. And so I went to school at Penn state. I double-majored in finance and economics thinking that wall street was the play that I knew at the time that I needed to go that route. So, I ran with that and ended up working for a commodities hedge fund for about five years. And I was a crude oil trader natural gas, and really under I, I learned what that industry was and, and what it means to grow quickly, what it means to be a part of the global economy.
And it was, it was basically a startup at that time too. So I saw what it took to grow a company. And that was fascinating for me. But during that time, I realized that I wanted to be in a field where I could continue that coaching methodology might be the best word. And so within that, I guess I was confident enough to think that I could do it financially successful here as well. So while I was at the hedge fund, I found CrossFit and fell in love with it, like so many did and ended up you probably sure that, you know, him, Jeremy teal and those guys at CrossFit central, I started working out there in Austin, Texas. Had a great experience with those guys and ultimately decided that I wanted to open my own gyms. And so I had gone to high school in Pittsburgh and met up with a former high school buddy of mine.
And we ended up opening a gym in Pittsburgh, you know, this, this typical story, 1100 square feet underneath the pizza shop, you know, figuring out how to do it carpet underneath the matting, just, you know, it's just awesome. We grew that really quickly moved out to the first facility in nine months, grew into a much bigger facility. A couple of years after that opened a second facility, we put had about 500 members when I ultimately sold my stake in the company. And a big reason that I did is that I had found OPEX, which opted at the time, James Fitzgerald and those guys. And I realized that the style of coaching that I wanted to do was different and not to take anything away from the group training methodology, but I wanted to teach a little bit something different and I, I wanted to go down the knowledge rabbit hole, and that's what I found from James and the team here.
So as I was getting ready to sell my shares, James and Mike Lee kind of started the recruiting process, you know, whether I knew it or not. And ultimately ended up at OPEX as a coach but realized really quickly that my passion really did lie on the business side. And so there was a good opportunity for me to sort of creating my own role at OPEX. And so I moved completely into the business side about four months after getting there and just really helped everybody at OPEX, put some structure to the business, build out all the marketing channels, build out the business line, launched the licensing program. And then ultimately took the CEO role about maybe six months ago. I'm not sure, but it's been a really cool experience and I've really enjoyed it. And I love the people that I'm working with and it's just fun to be in the fitness industry. I think that there's, you know, you can sort of be or do what you want in the industry, and it's just really fun. See how that plays out for people.
Wow. What a ride it's kind of been for you? Talk to me a little bit more about your days with group fitness, right? What were some things in hindsight now that you're looking back would you have done certain things differently to kind of you know maximize what you were kind of getting out of that model?
Well, it's a really good question. I, I think that one of the things that I didn't do well enough back then, and I see it very often is I didn't define the true business model that we were using. Yes, we were doing CrossFit. Yes. We were doing group training, but that was about it. Right. You know, you show up, you, you put something on the board, you try to treat your clients as best as you can. You try to give them as much of, as much of yourself as you can on a day-by-day basis. And I didn't necessarily think about the really long-term growth of all three stakeholders. And so the way that we define them at OPEX is the coach, the client, and the owner. And so I didn't really define the game plan for all three of those different buckets of people. And as my mind started opening up to that for me specifically, I thought that it could be done a little bit differently.
Gotcha. Okay. And so when then what happened? You transitioned into individualized fitness. You were intrigued by, you know, how OPEX was kind of putting out this information in this model. What kind of happened from there?
Yeah, I, I met let's see, man, this is bringing back a lot of good memories. So I started the CCP program, which is OPEX is education. And, you know, as a lot of people are just kind of enthralled by it because the first thing that I did was essentially human behavior. And so there's a consultative portion of CCP. And so you immediately get into this idea of, well, how am I actually understanding my clients? And whether it's group or individual or whatever else, if you don't truly have frameworks in place to understand what your clients are doing and saying, and feeling it's difficult to really give them a long-term success. Because success is not always leaner stronger, faster, you know, ultimately most people in any gym environment want to be happier. And so you have to understand what the underlying values and priorities are.
So I get there and I, I opened with that and instantaneously, I got really interested in how can I give this feeling to more people inside of my gym? And so what we ended up doing is we started to try to do essentially as individualized of a program as we can for a bunch of people. And what I recognized is that that just wasn't as effective as I wanted it to be. So at the end of the day, ultimately, I was just, you know, you can't scale your way to individual design. So ultimately what I was is I started writing a bunch more, let's call it what it is, templates for people, because I was, I was trying to get to as individualized of a design per what each of these buckets of people was. And by the end of it, I had something like eight or 10 buckets of templated programming that was somewhat effective, but it was very difficult to do, you know, it, it, wasn't aligned with what group training in my opinion really is, which is everybody's together. And so I knew that I wanted to go into more of an individualized entire environment. And that's where I got into OPEX. I started remote coaching as a client with James Fitzgerald. And then as I got into, you know, working with OPEX, I was obviously a remote coach for them. And then kind of grew from there into really thinking about how the gym environment could be laid out in that's when we put out the gym licensing program. So it's been, it's been an interesting evolution to say that.
Yeah, I, that brings up for me something that I've been getting asked about more and have had the opportunity to communicate with people since I've taken on this position at revival strength and hearing questions about, you know, how does this individualized design model work, right? What goes into uncaring, taking care of this one client? How does the structure work? How do you scale it? It's still something that's kind of foreign for people. So I wanna dig into that a little bit. What is the overall strategy behind how you can make an ID model work?
Yeah, so ultimately it comes down to dollars per hour. If we're really getting to brass tacks and personal training, you can make a lot of money individually as a personal trainer. And if you have a number of other coaches inside of your studio, you can make a decent bit of money, but at some point your run, you run out of time. It's just, it's just what happens, right? So whether it's 15 clients, 30 clients, whatever you run out of time. So either you're going to have to increase your prices, which depending on the area that may or may not fly, or you're going to stay where you are for a while, or you're going to burn out. And so I've seen a lot of personal trainers get really, really tired because they're on the floor for 10 hours a day for 10 years. And again, I'm looking at the long-term to try to understand what is the best scalable option for a coach, a client, and an owner.
And so in an individualized design model, you can spend good quality time in consultation sessions with your clients, but you can still have them in a team or a group environment on the floor, working out with guidance from one coach. So it's a really cool model where you are designing programs individually, but those programs don't take hours and hours to write. Maybe they do right when you first start, you know, but as you get proficient with it, you, your efficiency better and better, you, you put better principles on the page for them, and you build in your own efficiencies on managing your clients on a day by day basis. Whether if you're a remote coach through video, or if you're onsite, you're having, you know, conversations while you're on the floor, but you can actually do better dollar per hour doing that. And believe me, I've done the math.
You can do better dollars per hour doing that than you can in a number of other models. And from a coaching standpoint, essentially, what we'd like to do is we'd like to pay coaches a percentage of revenue, you know, so you also have this pathway that you can see in your future to say, if I do this and I work with this many clients, this is what I'm going to make every month. It's just math. So I know that's a very simplified version of it, but it comes down to the growth of a coach in the creativity of their program design and the creativity of the relationship building with their clients. But it has to also come down to the economics. And if you can't show that coach growth, just like we opened the conversation with, at some point, they will seek out someplace else that can provide them growth because they have no choice, you know, as much as coaches want to be noble and they want to do the right thing and they want to just give all of their time to their clients. At some point, they need to be rewarded for that. If they are a great coach. And that's obviously a big debated question, but if they do treat their clients correctly if they help their clients get really good results, they should be rewarded for that over time.
Absolutely. And for most people, you know, we're not even talking about, you know, making a killing out of this. It's, it's just talking about making a sustainable living where you can actually do this as a profession and not really as just a side hobby, right. Or having to do two or three other things to be able to sustain this passion of yours. And what this reminds me of is that clip that I originally saw that got us in contact with each other. Were you talking about, okay, there's, you know, let's say there's a coach getting paid $20 an hour? They are coaching about 20 hours a week. And they feel kind of capped out the next logical step. There is for a lot of people is like, Oh, well, I'm just going to go open up my own gym. Right. And that leads to a host of other challenges and obstacles along the way. But what are some of those opportunities that you can provide coaches with that allow for that growth?
Well, I think every coach is a little bit different and this is where we come back to the, what model do you want to run as a business owner and what sort of environment do you want to provide? And everybody's going to be different. And my hope is that everybody, you know, builds a business that is authentic to them, you know so that they're not trying to be something that they're not. But specifically in the coach's side of things, they either are going to be somebody who wants safety or they're going to be somebody who wants the opportunity. And certainly there some who are in between, but essentially somebody who wants safety, they will probably prioritize a monthly salary commission that is fixed so that they know exactly what's coming in. Whereas somebody who wants opportunity will, you know, opportunity cost themselves a little bit of base salary or base commission so that they have bigger upside on the backside.
And I think like a business owner, you want to identify what type of coaches that you want to bring in. You know, just to give you an example, we go on the lower end of upfront payment because we don't cap our upside. So if a coach comes in and the business and the coach are successful, we do want them to earn six figures. Do you know what I mean? That would be a utopia for us, right? Because as a business owner or as a company like us, we want our coaches to earn a lot of money because obviously, that means we're doing better as a business. That means they're retaining their clients. And that means that whether it's our marketing or their marketing or their social media presence, or their networking has to be effective, that they're bringing clients in. So we want to give a structure that allows them to feel what is most beneficial for them.
So if I kind of take that down into whether it be our gyms or group gyms or personal training, I think you want to identify, do I want to go with the safe mode, which essentially pays for play? Do you know what I mean? You show up, you get paid no matter what, or do you want to go with more of an opportunistic model, which by the way, is a little bit scarier for a coach upfront. But if you get the right coach, and if you align the fact that you are looking for an entrepreneur and a coach as well, and I don't mean that they're doing everything I do, I don't believe in that at all. I think the house, the business needs to be doing a lot of that. But if you can show a coach upside and you can say, I don't know what the number is. 30 grand, 50 grand, 80 grand, a hundred grand, whatever the number is, if you can show them a truthful, legitimate pathway to that, I believe that they will work harder and more effectively to achieve it because it's at their best interest. And if you align your business to make your business succeed, as their best interests are met, that in my mind is a great long-term business model.
Yeah. And there has to be that buy-in, that the house is actually providing that type of infrastructure for these people to grow. So I can think about when I first started personal training, this is, you know, before coaching CrossFit or anything like that, the model seemed really attractive at first, right. It like, okay, the trainer is walking away with so much and the house is making a little bit, but at the same time, like you look at it and you're like, you do the math. You're like, okay, wow. If I get 20, 30, 40 clients I could make a pretty decent living. But then on the other side of that is if the house is just kind of like, all right, well, here's the model. Here's what you gotta do now go do it. Right. And they don't provide you with any guidance as to how to kind of go about that. Like, Hey, here's how need to communicate your story. And here's how you need to communicate what we're about and providing them with the support that they need. Then you're left in a pretty weird position, right. Is because it's and I feel like that's the case with a lot of facilities around the country is the support to develop that coach and give them the tools necessary to be able to pursue that model that they're proposing is, is just not there.
Yeah, I think yeah, just because I know our model intimately, I can kind of attest to what we do. And as we've built out our licensing model, we've recognized that the education that goes into our owners is just as paramount as what goes into their coaches. And so one of the things that we've done is we've instituted a weekly call. That's just into perpetuity for all of our owners and their coaches to come on a Monday morning. It's actually coming up pretty soon, a Monday call where they go over client avatars and discuss exactly around programming for them and relationship building. And that education that they get from that is incredibly important to their overall path. You know, if we keep coming back to this word of a path, and if I know something for a fact, it's that a large percentage of coaches in this field, micro gym coaching want to increase knowledge.
They absolutely want to become masters of their craft. The trouble is, is that there are not enough outlets for, you know, for coaching consistently. So where do they go to continuously learn that to ask questions? And you're, I think you're spot on if the owner of the facility is not available to them consistently, then they're just going to cap out and they're not going to learn. And then if they're not making enough money, there's no education, there's no financial support. And if you're also saying that there's not a marketing component or a client acquisition component to their business, what's the coach supposed to do. I mean, they're not getting any support. So, you know, to go back to the business model, you as an owner, have to be clear on those points because, you know, just as well as I do that, if a coach is coaching all the clients and the owners coaching, no clients, what happens if the coach walks out clients go away.
So, you know, as the owner, I mean, we believe all of our facilities. We, I mean, we can't force it, force it, but all of our facilities are highly encouraged to do a coach owner model where they are also coaching clients. They're also building that capacity as a coach. They're, you know, and they're having experiences that they can share with their coaches, and then they can come on to our calls and they can have conversations about those clients so that they can get a different perspective. And just to give you an idea, James Fitzgerald and Henry Toronto are the guys on the call. So you, they've got an unbelievable support system, helping them to learn how to continue to coach. So how do we help a coach who comes in perhaps at a very low draw on a monthly basis while they're building clients' education? So it is very valuable for them. And then as the clients start to grow, now they're seeing the economic benefit plus the knowledge benefit. And so far that's been really effective for the gyms that we have.
What this reminds me of is coming down to, and I want to get your thoughts on this is the storytelling aspect, right? The narrative that you are communicating to people of what individualized design is about and why it's worth it, why it will help people live healthier, happier, and more fulfilling lives, right? How do you begin to encourage the coaches that are on that call to help, you know, help them craft that narrative, right. To be able to effectively communicate what they're about, because I feel like that's the next step is like, okay, once we have this model where the coach, the owner, and the client wins, what's the next step? Well, it's finding people who are going to fill that model. Right. so yeah. What are your thoughts on that?
Well, I mean, one of them, we do a six-month accelerator program for anybody. Who's going to become an OPEX gym. So they're on calls with James and me for six months straight every week, there's homework, there's, there's everything. We check all the homework. It is extremely hands-on to make sure that they understand all of these components in one of those weeks. And it's certainly within the context of a number of weeks on marketing. One of the weeks is storytelling and every owner, and we generally have two owners on this call. Every owner has to work through the story that they're trying to tell, and that call every single time we've done maybe six groups of licenses at this point. That is always people's favorite call because it gives such real rationale as to why they're doing what they're doing. And when somebody is clear on why they're running a gym, that's when they can start to recruit the right coaches.
So to your, to your question, if the coach owner is very clear on what they're doing, and if they use really good hiring practices to find aligned individuals who also share those same stories, not exactly the story, but the desire to be a part of that narrative. That's when, whether it be the marketing channels, the social media channels, that's when it all can align. But at the end of the day, that's when the fulfillment of the service itself is going to be effective. And you and I both know that in gyms, the referral system is the strongest source of leads at Le the least expensive, you know, the least expensive. So with a really good referral system, because those coaches are working with clients effectively, that's when they start to tell a lot of other people around them. So it's not that our gyms, aren't doing a lot of social media and marketing, and they didn't put CRMs in place and SEO and all that great stuff, right.
It's that they're building a foundation of networking and referrals that are consistent. And that is that's been extremely beneficial because the gym can align itself by saying, we believe that a one-to-one relationship, in the long run, is more effective. So that's our model, that's our belief. And of course, there are a number of other models out there that can be effective, but that's what we think. And that's who we recruit into our licensed model and that's who we want them to recruit as their coaches. And we, you know, we also have the CCP system with, you know, over 2000 coaches. That's a great starting point, for these gym owners to recruit coaches into their facilities.
Absolutely. it seems like an essential piece because like we mentioned earlier, there's a lot of questions around, okay, what does individualized design actually consist of? Right. What am I, when you see it's kind of the question that you would get, maybe when you're first joining across the gym as well, right? Like, wow, I'm paying 150 bucks, 200 bucks a month. What, what am I actually getting out of this? You know, like, okay, I get to show up and work out with other people. Do I get any extra coaching on top of this? There there's, there's a lot of those questions there when it comes to individualized design as well. And there's a lot of care that goes into the ID model, right? There's like you mentioned, it's a relationship business and you are investing a lot of time into each client getting to know them. And really there's a long game in view here, right? It's like, Hey, we're going to be working together for the next, let's say 12 months, six months, 12 months. And hopefully beyond that. But what are, some features or benefits that you find is essential to highlight when communicating the value of individualized design?
Well, I think the word that you, you just said a value, that's the key. So if we're talking about a client's perspective in general, a client wants to get better and have fun, you know, so, and fun means a lot of different things. So in the context of a coach-client relationship, they want to feel supported, but they only want to feel supported if they get results. Do you know? So at the end of the, a coach has to be able to say, well, we started here and went here. And the difficulty of a group environment generally is that it's very, very hard to know, realistically, if somebody's gone from point a to point B. So it's one thing. If somebody puts a PR up on the board, it's another thing to say, Oh my gosh, you know, your hormone levels have done this, you know, and you're able to actually fall asleep at night.
And within the ID model, the coach has to dig into those things. Now, I'm not saying they dig in like a natural path doctor. Okay. So, but they certainly, they certainly get reports on those sides of lifestyle and they have to make sure that they are helping people inside and outside of the gym. So the notion that everybody is an athlete, I think is, unfortunately, hurting a lot of gyms in that too many people are doing things that are too complicated, too central nervous system dependent. And in the long run, I don't think that that's necessarily a good thing for people, right? Because if, if they work nine to five at a desk all day, you know, what are they, what are they training for? You know, so they want to be doing things that ultimately line up with their priorities. And a lot of people want to look good, feel good, feel athletic, and have, and have a good time at the gym and build relationships.
So in individual design, you have to set up a structure that allows for that. So the coach is always aware of where their clients are, every single one. So they understand not only what their numbers are in the gym, they understand what their food looks like out of the gym. They understand what their lifestyle looks like out of the gym. They understand that they're sleeping. They understand how effectively they're having bowel movements, you know, all that stuff. And like, we can laugh about how crazy that sounds to a lot of people. But if somebody is in a bad spot, we need to have an understanding of that. So either we can help them, you know, whether it increases a program, decrease a program, more volume, less volume, anything around that on the floor, but we need to help them off the floor. And so our goal is to be a comprehensive, all-inclusive style, of fitness and health and wellness that allows the clients to ultimately succeed in and out of the gym.
This is where the beauty of, I think the assessment module in the CCP kind of comes outright. Is because you can effectively assess people in a variety of areas. And that is what influences the design that you're going to give them. Right. And it shows people like, Hey, we're going to retest this type of stuff, you know, in four weeks, eight weeks, whatever it might be. And so it gives people an objective view at, okay, here's where I was at. And here's where I'm kind of going, and you're doing that for each and every individual. So now that they see that progress, it's like, you're building consistency with yourself. Right. You're showing people that they can win. And it feels like it's almost like a cycle after that. Right. The more people feel good from winning with themselves and making a little bit of progress. It kind of feeds the fire.
Yeah. And I, I think I think the coach has to be a professional. So, so a lot of times coaches want what's best for their clients, but they're ultimately led to do things they don't necessarily think are right, because their clients are pushing on them so much. Do you know? So when you actually somebody into an assessment and tell them the truth, that changes a lot, you know, if you tell them, say, Hey, you know, you have no ability to press out on your right side. Like you're not snatching. Right. You know, and I know that, that sounds crazy to a lot of coaches, but if somebody has no structural support, how in the world are they supposed to hold the barbell overhead without destroying their shoulder? Do you know? And so what we want to do is we want to put truth out there so that we can say, we're going to look at this a lot, but until you can do ABC one, two, three, I need to do these movements.
I need to work on this structure. We need to do these things with your diet, you know, all of those points so that you can get to that goal of X, whatever the goal is, but the same idea as what their priorities are. If somebody doesn't have a priority of snatching every day, you know, and I mean, like life priority of snatching every day, why are they snatching? If that's not, you know, biomechanically sound for them. And I'm not against snatching, you know, I think it's a great movement, but it's not a good movement done in higher reps. If somebody doesn't have the support, you know, the structure to handle it. But the trouble that we find too, is that if the coach isn't measuring how effectively the results of a client are moving forward, well, how do they know if a client's hurting?
You know, because the client wants to, they want to impress the coach too. And so, they don't want to tell their coach that they're hurting. They just want to show up and work hard because there's kind of this, you know, leader-follower mentality, which is not a bad one, you know, but there's that mentality. And, and a coach has to be willing to be the professional, to say, you can't do this. And here's why, and when you do that, and you align really good coaching principles with a good program, with a bought in client that allows them to calm down enough in their CNS so that they can actually start to progress. And it's just you know, it does take a few more minutes to do that with each of your clients, you know, but that's the model. And that is what we believe leads to much higher retention. And for all of our gyms, all of their retention rates are just massively higher than what they were seeing in other models. And that's what we want to put out in the market, you know? So that works really well for us.