• Misbah Haque

Functional Bodybuilding, Aerobic Development, and Individual Design w/ Marcus Filly

Marcus Filly is back for his 5th appearance on the show! The last time we chatted was when I was about to start ATS 2.0. Since then, I've been really intrigued by the intricacies that go into building an engine, pacing, and learning your gears.

For some of us, it's that time of year. For others, we just want to not die on the Assault Bike (yours truly). Using myself as a case study, we talk about what breathing progressions might look like for long-term development.

Due to heightened interest, we keep the dialogue going around functional bodybuilding and the evolution we've seen over the last 6 months since the birth of the Awaken Training Series.

I measure time in podcast episodes. So this was also a surreal reflection for me from our first episode ever (EP17). Always a fulfilling conversation with this guy. Hope you enjoy it as much as I did.

Show Notes:

  • (9:00) - Awakening beyond fitness gains

  • (18:45) - Learning more about these training principles

  • (23:15) - Aerobic development

  • (39:00) - Testing work capacity

  • (46:45) - Breathing progressions

  • (52:00) - Pacing and learning your gears

  • (56:40) - Individualization

  • (1:13:40) - ATS Educational Experience

  • (1:22:00) - Silence exercise

Resources we may have talked about:

  • #47 – Functional Bodybuilding: Principles Of Training w/ Marcus Filly

  • #34 – Functional Bodybuilding Part Two w/ Marcus Filly

  • #26 – Gut Health, Supplementation, and Nutrient Absorption w/ Marcus Filly

  • #17 – Functional Bodybuilding w/ Marcus Filly

  • Awaken Training Series 1.0

  • Awaken Training Series: Educational Experience

  • Remote Individual Coaching

How you can connect with Marcus:

  • https://revival-strength.com

  • Instagram: @marcusfilly



(00:00:00):


Hey, this is Marcus filly and you're listening to the airborne mind show.


(00:00:36):


Hello everyone. This is Ms. [inaudible]. Thank you so much for joining me today and welcome back to the show, whether this is your first, second, 10th, or 30th episode. I appreciate you tuning in your time, your energy, your attention, and your ears mean the world. To me, without you listening, this show would not be where it is today. So once again, thank you. Before we get started, the biggest compliment that you can give is by leaving a review on iTunes, you have no idea how much that helps in terms of rankings, bringing more awareness to the show, and bringing on more interesting guests. So if you could take two or three minutes, not while you're driving, but take two or three minutes, go ahead, leave a review. It would be greatly appreciated. Also be sure to head over to the airborne Mind.Com, where you can check out some free resources and the full show notes there as well.



(00:01:24):


Today's podcast episode is brought to you by audible.com. If you enjoy books and you are looking for something new to read something that is relevant to problems that you're trying to solve, I made a list for you@theairbornemind.com for slash reading list. You can see a compilation compile. Did I say that right? Compilation of all the books that previous guests have recommended on the show, and if you decide you want to go for it, you can grab a free audiobook and 30-day free trial there as well. Once again, that is the airborne mind.com forward slash reading list. Today, my guest is Marcus filly. This is his fifth appearance on the show. The last time he was on was episode 47, right before I was about to start awakened training series 2.0. And you know, since then, I've been really intrigued about the intricacies that go into building an engine.



(00:02:22):


For some of us it's that time of year, you know, for preparing for the open it's creeping up on us for others. We just want to not die on the assault bike. And that's exactly me. So using myself as a case study, we talk about breathing progressions and what that might look like for my case and for long-term development. And due to heightened interest, we keep the dialogue going around functional bodybuilding and the evolution that we've seen over the last six months since the birth of the awakened training series. You know, I always measure time and podcast episodes. Like I can think back to what I was doing and what was going on. So this was a very surreal reflection for me. When I think about our first episode ever episode number 17, I'm still finding my groove. I was in Pennsylvania you know, doing the podcast in my room and, you know, episode 60. Now over here, we got to do this in person and so much has happened, you know, in between. So, you know, always a fulfilling conversation with this guy and I hope you enjoy this conversation as much as I did. And more importantly, hope you do something with it.



(00:03:39):


Marcus, welcome back to the show MSPBA. Thanks for having me back, man. So last time we chatted was episode 47 and I've said this before I measure time and podcast episodes. Like I can, I can think back to that episode and be like, wow, you know, all the different things that were going on for me around that time, you know, I was here to visit last time. We were just about, I was just about to start up ATS 2.0, so, and a lot of I'm sure on your end has happened since then as well.



(00:04:10):


Oh my gosh. So much has happened. What episode is this going to be? Or what episode are you at roughly now in the process?


(00:04:17):


Well, this one is going to be episode 60. Oh, right. Okay. and for anybody listening, if you haven't listened to Marcus's previous ones, like the first one you were on was episode 17.


(00:04:29):


Yeah. That was a while back. Yeah. I remember last time we were talking I think in the middle of our conversation, I said something like, well, yeah, this is my third time on the show. You're like, no, this is your fourth time on the show.


(00:04:39):


Gosh, just flying by


(00:04:42):



Time is flying by. Yeah.


(00:04:44):


Yeah. So let's dig into, what you looking back about 12, 13 weeks ago in the second round of ATS was about to kind of start-up what was kind of going on for you at that point. And what's happened since then?



(00:04:59):


Let's see. 12, 13 weeks ago. Our daughter, I think was just, no, I don't think she was sleeping through the night yet. So that was a big deal for us at the time. You know, we were in like the fourth month, she was like almost waking up every 15 minutes a night and it was just unbearable. And we were really kind of, it's hard to even remember back to how much of a struggle that was. But you know, our daughter turned seven months a couple of weeks ago and she's been sleeping pretty soundly knock on wood. And it's really changed my life and my wife's life and our life together. And it's made her a happier little baby. So that's been huge. All you parents out there know exactly what I'm talking about either because you haven't experienced it or you have experienced it from a training perspective or like coaching perspective.



(00:05:55):


You know, we were arriving at end of, so when we spoke last, it was the end of the first cycle of wakened training series that had ever been released. You know, we had a pretty good turnout the first time and I was just starting to get the sense that my gosh, you know, people know about what we're doing with functional bodybuilding through revival strengthen. And then this program, this awakened training series program I had just come back, I think from like regionals the California regional competition in San Diego. And it was the first time I'd been out really out of the house since, you know, Noah was born and people were coming up to me and saying things like man, the program has been great and, you know, thanks for putting out the content. And it was a bit of a shock to me that there was really that much interest and awareness in the community about what was happening and what we were doing. So it kind of, I kind of knew there was like swelling of interest at the time and I was excited to see kind of what the 2.0 series would bring what new participants would join in to start their 1.0 journey at that time. And since then it's so many things have changed, which I'm sure we'll get into, but yeah, that was where we were at, then that was crazy a while back.



(00:07:13):


Yeah. And I remember, you know, starting up 2.0 at that point, thinking like, Oh, what, you know, what is this going to bring? What's going to be a little bit different about this. So for me to these episodes have been like a great marker because it gives me a chance to think back to like the entire experience and especially the I'm really glad I did the before and after pictures you know, before 1.0, after 1.0, and now I'm excited to use, you know, we did an InBody scan and I got the caliper testing done the other day too. And the one thing I've noticed is, definitely, my nutrition has been cleaned up even more since the 1.0. Which I think makes a difference. Like, I feel like I've put on a little bit more muscle. But we all see it, man. I see myself every day. So I'm like, I don't really feel a difference, but people have like, even on Instagram have noticed where they're like, dude, you look jacked out of nowhere and I'm like.



(00:08:15):


There's that? And you got your shorts as T tailored back a little bit. So you're showing more quad now. So the combination of some more muscle and more quad showing it really sends people on Instagram. It makes it go crazy.



(00:08:28):


I'm really happy. I feel like I've been on my Instagram game lately. Cause I, you know what I got, I got a comment the other day that was like, it made it real for me and what it was, it was like, the guy was like, dude, what shoes are you wearing? I was like, literally, that's what, you know, you made it, that's a question Mark is, gets on every single post, like three times it's, it's a, it's been cool to document this entire process. You know, I just, I'm fascinated to have like a body of work to look back and be like, like, I don't know. It just reminds me just like these podcasts, what was going on in that period. Yeah.



(00:09:08):


You've been you know, I don't want to give an award for best student, but if I had


(00:09:17):


You, maybe you would get that


(00:09:18):


Award, the awakened training series award. But what to me really stands out is that you know, when we first started, when I first thought, okay, let's put out a program for people to follow that isn't individualized, it's a group program. You know, I, I knew going into it. There was some doubt, there are some drawbacks to a group program. That part of me felt reluctant to kind of dive into because I want people to have a great experience. And I know that if we can't individualize it for everybody, there might be some holes or gaps in the training that don't fit perfectly for each individual. But I also hoped, Hey, I'm going to put something out there that will expose people to principals and make them just look at things a little bit differently with their training, you know maybe look at things differently in their life and their recovery and how they eat to fuel themselves how they think about fitness.



(00:10:15):


And, you know, since we met prior to ATSC 1.0, and we did our first podcast together and watching, you know, you over the past seven months, I mean, there've been so many things that have changed. I've seen a change in your life, things that you have you know, truly awaken to whether it be a core belief in how you want to coach other people, a core belief and how you want to feed yourself and eat and nourish yourself you know, a core philosophy around training and how you wanna basically train individuals in fitness and the questions that you're asking on your podcast. And to me, that's like, you know, the most profound change that I could hope to see in a participant is things that extend way beyond just the, you know, the muscle mass gain that you got or the strength gains that you got.



(00:11:11):


Cause those are temporary. You know, like if you don't keep working on that, they'll, they'll go away. You know you can have a great 12-week program get super, you know, bulked up or leaned out or strong. And if you don't change the way you're living and you don't change, you know, you don't change make lasting change, you'll say goodbye to that. And that was my experience when I was younger and all the training programs I did, you know, through my twenties and early twenties and you know for now I'm feeling like, Hey, the real benefit is going to be to, you know, give people, like I said, lasting change. And, and it's great to see that happened through awakened training series.



(00:11:55):


My question is, how did you do that? Because I see with individual design, how that's even more possible because there are so much connection and contact between coach and client. You know, we, we take the time to develop that relationship, stay in communication, but it's not just me. I think you've been able to do this for other participants as well. And I'm curious, like, do you think it's the training principles and the actual, like through doing the training, this has happened for people or does it extend beyond that? And like, did you have certain intentions on kind of helping people think beyond the box through some other way?



(00:12:38):


That's a good question. I mean, I think it's con it's something that I'm constantly trying to evolve as a coach is my ability to you know, beyond just the program design, how do we impact clients? How do we impact people and fitness? I think a big part of it is through social media. I think it's through the message that we put out on my own personal Instagram page on revival. Strength's Instagram page on functional bodybuilding's Instagram page. You know, it's the educational content that's there. It's seeing how the training is being blended into real life. It's seeing the community that we're building at revival strength around, you know, a core and common belief shared amongst a bunch of great coaches and great individuals on how to live a healthy, happy life and achieve our goals. And then, yeah, I think specifically there are things within the program design, especially, you know notes that you know, I may add in for clients or in awaken training series in the, in the group program on mentality around how to approach a training day.



(00:13:54):


So you might be, you know, weight training squat specific training day, and the added notes from the coach or from me are too, you know, leave some room in the tank at the end of your five sets of three today. Meaning don't go to a maximum, no, that in two, in the next two to three weeks, you're going to be building off of this. So the emphasis today is on quality. So that right there, you know, is, is a cue from a coach that a client can read and, and maybe it goes over their head, they don't pay attention to it while another client reads it. It's like, okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna leave a little bit, you know, on the table today. But by the end of the session, I'm going to stay under my like max percentages. And they walk away from the training session and they have an opportunity to think about, okay, what did that do for me?



(00:14:46):


Like, Oh, it made me feel you know like I got quality in, it helped me build confidence because I didn't fail a rep today. I made sure I stayed under my maxes. And when they come back in the next week, they have confidence that they can go up in their loads or they can progress yeah. Progress in weights. So small little like actual coaching cues and then kind of the bigger picture message that gets put out on social media for, for clients. And non-clients as people that are watching from afar see like, okay, this is how that gets done. And this is how it's put together in a group of people at revival, strength.



(00:15:28):


Yeah. I think those little messages along the way are huge because even on rest days, you know, you're explaining, for example, the flow sessions where it's, you know, sustainable aerobic work just to get blood moving. And you're kind of giving people ways to be more creative with those flow sessions, you know, you're like, Oh, Hey, here's a way that you can do it, but feel free to be creative and, you know, work on some of your individual weaknesses using this. Then on Sundays, you've got notes along like, Hey, what should the focus around my rest day today be even though they may seem kind of small, but it, it shifts something for people when they're coming from a background where maybe only program design sets and reps were like emphasize. And now that there's something a little bit different, a little addition to that it goes a long way.



(00:16:23):


Yeah. I totally agree. I mean, from the beginning, you know, and continued through the evolution of 1.0 2.0 into 3.0, you know, I keep thinking about what are ways that we can, you know, share pieces of knowledge like that, that could impact people's, you know, health and fitness outside of just the sets and reps. And we're going to continue that into 3.0, and in this release, you know, we're taking it a step to actually collaborate with a strength conditioning coach. He's also a doctor of physical therapy at strength coach therapy on Instagram. His name is Teddy and he's got a ton of knowledge and, you know, just a super informative you know, Instagram page, and I've been following him and we've been collaborating you know, just on ideas or, you know, kind of developing a relationship. And I was like, man, why don't you put together some content that we can add to awaken training series for our, you know, our clients or participants to learn from, and to again, like bring a new awareness to how they might approach training, they might approach recovery, they might approach their active recovery days.



(00:17:37):


So that's something that we're like bringing to the table this next time, which I don't even think we've talked about, but it's really exciting to think, okay, there are other professionals out there that see the value in what we're doing and want collaborate with us too, again, extend that, you know, training education health and fitness education model that we're showing to a lot of people.



(00:18:01):


That's been something that's coming up more and more is like people who are participating within ATS are realizing that they want to learn more. And they're following your, you know, Marcus filly page, functional bodybuilding page. And you're putting out, you know, a dosage of content and education around like, Hey, here's the why behind why we're doing this? And it's teaching people that way, but there is like this craving to learn more about, like, I want to know more about what I'm doing and as they're going through it, it's cool to see people making connections on their own and having that desire to go out and seek out that type of, you know, knowledge in a sense. So I mean, I'm sure that's something you've noticed, but what are some of your thoughts around that, like other professionals that are reaching out, or maybe just enthusiasts who are like, I want to know more about these training principles.



(00:18:57):


Yeah, it's happened. That's probably been like the highlight of the past 12 weeks is that I've had a lot of people reach out to me. I've had, you know, video call conferences and calls with and messages and emails back and forth with coaches from around the world who are, you know, interested to learn more, like you're saying, I'm drawn to something about what, you know, what we're S what we stand for. And you know, and to me, that's exactly what has kind of led me down my fitness, you know, education path is, you know, seeing somebody or something out there that I resonated with and then, you know, seeking knowledge or information from that person and kind of following, falling along and then taking that information, putting it into my own life in the way that fits for me, you know, I don't, I don't, I don't pretend to think that this is like, this is the way you got to do training and eat and live for the rest of your life.



(00:20:01):


And this is the, you know, you got to live and breathe like awakened training series forever. I hope it's like I said, it's its tools that people can take into their life. And, and we're, we're learning, I'm continuing to learn from the people around me, from the participants, from the clients from my mentors. And then it's all kind of just, this is, this is our, this is my outlet to express what I'm learning. And I don't intend to stop learning anytime soon. So I do want to continue to have outlets for that. And I want to be able to share that with other, you know, individuals that want to upgrade their own experience, or they want to, you know, upgrade their client's experience. And they want to learn a little bit more about what we stand for and you know, at some of the exciting kind of planning and brainstorming and creativity that I'm going to be bringing to the next several months and really the next year is okay, what's, what's beyond awaken training series.



(00:20:57):


You know, how can we reach people and get our hands on participants? You know, are we going to host some awakened training experience where people can come into our revival, strength facility and be with us and spend several days learning and practicing, you know, with our coaches and with me, and, you know, that's exciting to me. And you know, having outlets for people to dive deeper than just the program, but get into the why behind was, what we're prescribing and what we're putting into our programs through like a, you know, awakened training series, like mentorship thing, where people can get a little deeper.



(00:21:34):


Yeah. you know what, we'll definitely bookmark that for a second, because what comes up for me is going through ATSC 1.0, and then 2.0, I've definitely learned some tools that I feel like are, you know, necessary to kind of pass along to other clients I'm working with. But at the same time, I've learned a lot about my individual weaknesses through just going through this program. And I don't know if there's there probably is some bias there because I'm involved with the individualized design and I'm doing it for other people. And so I make those connections in my brain. That's like, Oh, I see how this piece for me would be, you know, this is a little bit above my level. So you know, the other day, like this learning experience is something that's going to continue to evolve for, not just me, for you, for every participant that's there.



(00:22:35):


And you've been pretty open about that with like, Hey, like this is a group program and there are limitations when we do these group programs. And that transparency is key, I think. But something that comes up for me is like, I was doing, you know, one of the breathing pieces a couple of weeks ago. And, you know, whenever that assault Blake is there and it's like above like 12 calories, I, you know, I die on that thing if there's, you know, I think it was like row 250 meters do like this bar complex you know, like chest to bar toes to bar pull-ups, then it was like an assault bike, 21 calories. And then you like muscle-ups, right? So for me, the muscle-ups and the chest to bar and all that, it was totally fine. Like.



(00:23:22):


Do you look like a pro flying? I was there and then five minutes later on the assault, but it starts off like, you know, Oh, wow.



(00:23:34):


I feel great. Feel great. And then all of a sudden I just crash and burn. And I, I realized that for me looking back, like, okay, I had this experience with competitive weightlifting and work. Wasn't a huge part of that. And it was something that even after that, I didn't pursue solely, like I did group fitness for a while and there wasn't a, you know, development around you know, energy systems really. And that's something that's been recent for me is like really seeing like, Whoa, there's a way to test your work capacity. And there's a way to develop it. There are progressions for it. Exactly. Like there is for strength training for the functional bodybuilding accessory work that yeah. We're using it's just as organizing, I mean, you know.



(00:24:22):


Yeah. Ask it, ask any track and field coach who's taught, you know coached runners. It's like, there's a, there's a formula C somewhat for each person that's going to help them progress in that, in their sport, you know, or in their specific time domain that they want to develop. Right. So, yeah, you're, you're what you're talking about is like, there's a, you know, w with program design for individuals, it's about dose and response, you know, one dose is going to get you a response. And the response that we're looking for is, you know, blank, whatever it is that you're trying to develop in that client. Well, I got, let's say a hundred participants ATS, and there's one dose for a hundred different people. There's going to be probably a hundred different responses, you know, and as much as we may try and control how, you know, the, you know, what that response looks like, you can't do that when there are too many people, you can get close-ish for some, and you know, you can provide people some insight and you can give notes, like what we talked about.



(00:25:27):


Like, Hey, this should feel like this to help guide them on that. But you know, back to the example, you just said, it's like, well, Ms. But you're not, you know, I like I'm writing, you know, these sets and 21 counseling assault bike, like maybe I have 195 pounds, you know, a male athlete in mind thinking about that who's five foot 10. Okay. So 21 calories for that body size and, you know, bodyweight you know, is going to feel a lot different than for you, you know, probably 50 pounds lighter than that person. So you know, the dose, there was probably too high for you to achieve may be the response that we were looking for in that 21 cows, you know, if you're my individual design client, that's probably not going to be the prescription for what we were trying to achieve in that particular set.



(00:26:15):


So, you know, that's where I, I, you know like you said, transparent about the limitations of, you know, one group design is that we can't, I can't control all the variables. And you know, that's something that people get to make a choice about once they become aware, like, okay, if I really want to control more variables, if I really want to have a program designed and tailored for me, then maybe I seek out an individual coach. You know, if I'm not sure yet what I'm doing, and I just want to kind of experience some different training principles and philosophies, then we provide the information, like the notes about how things are supposed to feel. We give people real opportunities to compare and contrast different aspects of their fitness. And then, as you said, you had this, this year a little bias because you have some knowledge around individual coaching and design.



(00:27:08):


And, you know, you're exploring that on a daily basis with your clients, but even if you didn't have that, I think that after 24 weeks of doing this, you could really have some clear distinction between like, wow, I'm, I feel a lot more comfortable in this aspect of my training. I feel a lot more like a LA I feel a lot more lost in this other area. I'm not as fluent when it comes to, you know, let's just call it breathing work or sustainable aerobic efforts. You know, I don't have as much ability to kind of bounce between movements or I can't. I do. Okay. If it's a roller, but on a bike, I'm not doing okay. So versus weight training, you're like clean snatch jerk, like whatever this complex is, are like, you can handle it pretty well. So boom, it lights up this you know, the light bulb in your head.



(00:28:01):


That's like, yeah, maybe the only way I'm truly going, gonna learn that is if I get into the specifics, just like doing the weight training progressions, I need to get into the specifics of breathing progressions. And that is, you know, that's the awareness that I think a balanced, you know, I'm putting the quotes up, but a balanced group program can, can offer people. And that was my experience actually in 2000. And I want to say 10, I was following group programming at the time from James Fitzgerald. And, you know, I was having success in 80 plus percent of the stuff. And then there were like, you know, days where I would just be like, what is happening? I don't even know how to do this. And it just, that, that, that 20% of the time just really got highlighted for me. And that was when I was like, okay, James, you're my coach. Like I got to do this one one-to-one thing and that's really how I'm going to grow. So yeah, that, that's, that's good. That's a good point. You bring up in something that, you know, I think people hopefully over time, we'll have an opportunity to see and feel, and then make an informed decision about with their training going forward. Yeah.



(00:29:19):


A couple of different directions. I want to go with that. One is the dose and the response that if the dose is too high for somebody like that, the 21 calories for me was like death. And I'm doing it four times. It was like, Oh my gosh, this is never going to end like that. Be counterproductive to that, you know, development in that energy system. Right.



(00:29:48):


Maybe yeah. Counterproductive and, or just unproductive, right? It's like, I want to go get really good at swimming and you show up and there's just a mountain there. You're like, well, that's not where you're near, you're walking up a mountain. That's actually not a good idea. If you want to improve your swimming. Right. You know, if you want to improve sustainable aerobic efforts and you give somebody something that is like, you know, far too difficult for them to ever do sustainably, then they never even get experienced doing it. So it's, it might be non-productive or in the way you phrase it counterproductive. If you give too high a dose, and as a result, you get this like a high-intensity response, maybe a lactic acid response, or, you know, as a high-stress response, it ends up maybe, you know, messing somebody up more than, than the intent was.



(00:30:42):


And so they're re they're, they're going to take longer to recover from a training session where they pushed way too hard because of the wrong prescription. Not only did they not even touch the training zone that they were supposed to be in, but they went really hard. And then their training session the next day, or the next day, or the next week is impacted negatively. So yeah, it can be both, but definitely the that's a fine line, you know, and then it goes the other way too, you know, under prescribed, like not enough of a dose which I think some people experience in group design as well. And, and even, you know, any kind of design it's like, man, this isn't really enough for me. Like I need more, you know, or they're thirsty for more. And, you know, somebody wants to hold them back too much.



(00:31:30):


Now, a sustainable aerobic effort and pacing those two things for me, as we touched on a little bit last time and I'm like, it's foreign for me, but I'm realizing what the clients I'm dealing with too. That it's not just me. There's a lot of people that this stuff is really foreign to because they only know one gear. And you said last time it was like hanging out in that like lactic endurance type of, you know, bath. I think he said it was like a lactic bag. Yeah. Like if that's all, you know, I mean, you'll, that's just one energy system, right? Yeah.



(00:32:14):


And, and, and truthfully, a lot of people don't even know what that feels like, because they're not even strong enough or powerful enough to get there, you know? So they just know like, just go, like, I don't know, they have one go button.



(00:32:29):


So this learning of pacing and learning how to just know your gears and control everything and to make sure that you, you know, what is sustainable, you can, you can manipulate that when you're put into a, let's say a competitive setting or, you know, you're put into like a 10-minute grinder, you have a little bit more awareness around how to control your effort, which that alone, I think, separates you from many, many people that are probably around you. Yeah.



(00:33:03):


Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's been the biggest learning in my athletic career for the past seven years. You know, I kind of got, I think I actually probably 10 or 12 years ago, I had my first exposure to sustainable aerobic work. It was, I got a road bike and I started doing some road biking, you know, and I would go you know, I would go, I went for a 40-minute ride. Oh my gosh, it was the longest thing I'd ever done. Right. Then I was going for an hour ride. Then it was an hour and a half and it was a four-hour ride, you know, up and down and over the mountain. And, you know, I was on my bike and, and that right there, I learned to like, okay, I can go at a hard or a moderate pace for this long, and this is how long I can hold this pace.



(00:33:53):


And if I, if I go too hard, you know, the first couple of times and went for a bike ride, I'm going up a Hill. And I had to get off and walk the bike because I was just didn't know what I was doing. I was pushing too hard. And so I got this little exposure to it through cycling. Right. I never got there as a runner, even though I played soccer when I was younger, I wasn't, I was an anaerobic athlete. That's why I gravitated towards being a goalkeeper. After a couple of years in high school, I was like, this is it. I can jump sprint, dive, you know, knee people, punch people, grab the ball out of the air. Like that was good for me. So yeah, I mean, I struggled through, you know, college running conditioning. Like, they're like, you got to go do a two-mile-like time trial.



(00:34:33):


Yeah.


(00:34:36):


Terrible. Like, I didn't know any of that stuff. Had little exposure to biking after college. And then, you know, it was kind of backed away training doing more as sprint work got into CrossFit, kind of basically thought, Oh, CrossFit, just another, like all-out sprint thing. And then, you know, I started to see some like longer CrossFit events, but she would just crush me like 2011 sectionals chipper to finish the event. It was a 25 burpees lunge, a hundred yards, 25 burpees. Then this dumbbell shouldered, overhead farmers carry five rounds deal. Then another bunch of burpees, then a one K row, then a run around the thing. And I, I remember that event. So clearly I was like next to Neil Maddix and Gabe Subaru and Pat barber. Okay. So like top dogs at the time. And I'm like this, nobody, you know, and I like, I get 50 yards into the lunch.



(00:35:34):


That means I just did 25 burpees. And I look around and I am way past everybody. I basically rented my 25 burpees, lunged, like full speed, 50 yards look back, all the cameras were on me and all these like guys were way behind me. And at that instant, I was like, I made a mistake. Like this is not good. Cause I was already breathing hard and I didn't even know it yet, but I had another 22 minutes of just so offering ahead of me. So again, just super like, you know, illiterate when it came to that kind of, you know, understanding and reading of breathing pacing. And so, I mean, that was kind of shortly before I hired a coach and got into trying to learn it and spent six, seven years really in my training, trying to develop an understanding of how to do that, you know, and it takes, it took me a long time and the only reason I can speak to it, you know, I'm not, you know, I don't, I don't claim to be the best coach of, you know, coaching Roby principles and, and progressions and developing these systems and people.



(00:36:41):


I understand it quite well now, but I was a really great student at it. I listened to my coach, I got into the details. I, I listened to the philosophy of like, okay, when you finish this set, yeah, you got to stop. And within two minutes you gotta be ready to go again. So pace that first one. So as coaches will try, try and give you like, here, you're going to run it, this timeframe, you're going to roll it, this timeframe, and that's going to be your pace. And that's helpful for some people. I was more of like, a feeling type of person I needed to feel and know what it was supposed to feel like and connect with that feeling and then go out and do it and be like, man, I pushed too hard. That didn't feel right. I'm feeling, you know, or yeah, I didn't push enough.



(00:37:23):


And it was, you know, that slow game of PR trial and error. You know, and I talk about this, it's like thousands of hours on bikes, rowers, and running, and then doing just simple, you know, couplets and triplets. And then many years later, you know, I started to be able to feel really capable of doing that in a variety of settings in a 10-minute grinder, in a competition setting, knowing how to dial it up and dial it down because now I didn't just have one pace. I didn't have just my go button. I had gears, you know, so my coach taught me, you gotta have not just third gear, fourth gear, fifth gear, you gotta have third gear, fourth gear, 4.1 gear 4.2, 4.34, you know, like levels to it, expand that toolbox. And you know, that's, that's like percentage breathing work, you know, versus percentage lifting work that people do and you know, know how to move at different percentages of your maximum capacity. And that will sustain you through different levels and time domains and, you know, competition, or just teach you how to get a lot more out of your training, feel better recover faster and enjoy, you know, your life rather than leave the gym feeling like you just got, you know, kicked in the gut, have a bad rest of your day.



(00:38:52):


That brings me to testing. And there are many ways that we can test some of this stuff. And it's very common to look at benchmarks, like let's say, Fran or Murph, right. And those are, those are a mixed modal type of testing environments that we don't know who the individual let's say, it's me. I may not be fluent in some of those things where it's not the most accurate way for me to see, Hey, is, is my aerobic capacity improving. And so what that brings me to is the 10-minute assault bike test, for example, that's something that all ID clients kind of not all, but for the most part, they kind of go through that. Just the idea behind that type of test is that we're seeing not only like, okay, how many calories do you put output on the bike, but like, what's your mental toughness, like going into it?



(00:39:52):


Do you have a concept of, Hey, I'm going to pace this first little half and then gear up from there? And I think we could make this actionable for some people listening who want to kind of explore breathing work. Another layer of that is like, let's say that this 10-minute assault bike test, like what, what is considered, you know, is there an average score or something that you've developed where you're like, okay, this, this, this amount of calories, 135 calories in 10 minutes for this person tells me that, you know, we need to do X.



(00:40:28):


Yeah, Right. Well, I think that there's, there is no one single test that in isolation, as we're looking at, you know assessing clients and there's no one single test that really gives us a full picture and lets us know if that's truly something that we need to focus on or not, you know, all the assessments need to be looked at the kind of together. So we can create kind of a, a picture of where people sit on a fitness continuum in a variety of different, you know, movements, strength, energy system capacities. I think the other thing you were saying is that you know, basically what you said is the simpler, the test, you know, potentially the more powerful the information is for more people. If we provide you with a really complicated series of movements where you are, your performance is maybe going to be dictated by, or, you know, it's going to depend upon your knowledge of how to perform or execute, you know, the movement given.



(00:41:33):


Then if you're just unfamiliar with it, then you might really not get a clear sense of this. Person's, you know, work capacity, for example. So it's like, you got to jump on a box, you got to throw a wall ball, you got to do a toast of bar. Okay, well this person's never done a TOSA bar before. So they're going to spend half the test figuring out, trying to figure out how to do a toast bar, which in itself could be good, you know, opportunity to see how this person learns. And if that's what they say they want to be good at, they come to you say, I want to be really good at doing box jumps and wall balls and TOSA bar. Well, then you want to test them on that and you want to see, okay, well, you don't know how to do a TOSA bar.



(00:42:10):


This really was helpful. Then you can assess more properly beyond that. But as a general like work capacity test for a lot of people, maybe that misses kind of a, a good SA you know, a big sample of the population versus the test you're talking about, which is like a 10-minute bike max calorie test. And I'm honestly not sure who really came up with who's who really started popularizing that test. I don't, I know that my coach and our, you know, our mentors OPEX fit, they've done that testing for a long time. That's where I got it for the first time. And it's basically a, you know, a lot of people do it on the assault bike. Now, once upon a time, it was on the Airdyne bike. It's basically any bike that's got arm cranks, you know, pedals. So you're kind of peddling and pushing and pulling with your arm.



(00:42:58):



And they're extremely potent, you know, tools of fitness. And it's just, Hey, you put somebody on a bike, you adjust the seat height, you know, to sort of a standardized height for the person. And they just race for 10 minutes and try and accumulate the maximum amount of calories in that time. And from something as simple as just a bike, get a ton of information from somebody one, you get a score they're basically average power output for 10 minutes. You can learn what that is. You can also see as you said, you can understand what did this person know, what it meant to raise for 10 minutes, or did they sprint for a minute kind of go into a lactic haze for the middle eight minutes, and then kind of wake up for the last minute. Did they try and game it too much where they, you know, are they more of a thinking cerebral athlete?


(00:43:47):


That's like, okay, I got this plan, you know, or do they know how to tolerate pain? Are they, are they just relatively new or they're afraid of getting uncomfortable and you can watch all that stuff with a client. And, and then, you know, scores on a bike like that also need to be adjusted for people's, you know, body mass and their, you know, there, so their weight, right. Weight adjustment. And we already talked about you being on an assault bike, doing 21 calories versus me. It's a big difference. So I wouldn't anticipate you coming in with a score of 200 on the 10-minute score on the 10-minute assault, bike test. If you did weight-adjusted that that would be the best score we'd have.



(00:44:31):


So


(00:44:32):


Yeah, I mean it's, there is no, like, so I think, you know, one of your questions was like, is there like a good standardized number for that? No, there isn't, you know, you have to look at these things relative to the client relative to their goals. But one of the things we just spoke about is that, you know, the simpler, the test, then maybe the more you can gain from it, you know? So knowing what simple tests can look like, and, and that in itself can take creativity to even think like, gosh, how do I get more information with just something very simple from, from a client?



(00:45:10):


Yeah. I just use the 10 minutes off-bike as one, but you're right. There are many different ones. Like we've got the 30, 30 test, 30 seconds on the rower, 30 seconds rest times four. Yeah. What, what do all four of those efforts kind of look like, then you got the 60-minute row, which is also another huge indicator of like, what's your capacity to pace and stuff like that. And then for more advanced athletes, you can, you know, as you said, you can get creative with like, okay, let's see what your ability to do. Tosta bar mixed with like, you know, burpees or whatever kind of looks like. So this is one of the reasons why I really like the case studies that we do every Thursday. You know, we have coaches meeting every Thursday and its slog it's, it's like we go from 11 to one it's two hours and we dig deep, like, you know, whoever's presenting the case study that day goes into like all the assessments that were done for like this one particular client.



(00:46:10):


And then we go back and forth like, Hey, why'd you prescribe this? And it's like, you've got four different eyes checking on that one person. There's a lot of learning that happens for everybody there, the person presenting and everybody kind of watching. So I guess what would be kind of helpful as like, let's, let's use me as an example is, you know, you know, okay. The 21 calories, like that, would be crazy for me on the assault bike. It's hard. On the 10 minutes off, like tests, you know, I may not produce 200 calories, but like, let's say based off of some of these tests that we're talking about based off how I perform, what, what would some more specific breathing progressions for my kind of look like? Yeah, like you don't have to get super detailed, but just where what's your gut kind of telling you like, okay, this is, this might be a good place for you to start.



(00:47:02):


Yeah. I mean when you know, maybe there's a context that people can connect with and understand when somebody arrives at the gym and they have never done weight training before, you know, you're probably not going to teach them a snatch, you know, you probably gonna try and teach them how to squat and make sure that they can actually get into a full range of motion squat before you might load them. So it's like, let's teach an air squat that for somebody might look like a bench squat first, you know, that progresses to an air squat that progresses to a goblet squat. That progress is to a front squat and so forth. Similarly with like, you know, we get, so the takeaway here is, let's start simple, let's start with the fundamentals, and start with the foundation. And, and again, some people might not even be ready for a bench squat, so we have to be prepared for thinking even simpler than that.



(00:47:57):


So really simple. So, you know, we, we just identify, let's say we identify, we give you, put you through a battery of tests. And I see that, you know, relative to people that we have evaluated or that I know other coaching systems have evaluated, like you have pretty great, you know, lifting numbers, right. You've, you know, competitive in your weight division and Olympic weightlifting. And you, you know didn't have a lot of you were not comfortable doing a 10-minute assault bike, or we put you on a rower for an hour and you had to take five breaks and you cramped in your back.



(00:48:39):


You didn't like all those highly possible. Very, very likely you drank more water, you took more water breaks, then you accumulated meters. But if that's the case.


(00:48:51):


Then I'm like, okay, well, you know, you're, you're kind of, let's say, you're, we'll just say, you're in that category of bench squat, we gotta, we gotta bench squat, you in your breathing work. Right. So, you know, depending on the client and depending on the person like that could look as simple as, Hey, you need to go and walk for 30 minutes straight without stopping continuously, you know, or you need to get on the bike and you need to peddle for 30 minutes at 40 RPMs, very slow. Like, it feels slow, but you have to do it for 30 minutes continuously, you know? Or maybe it's time to go on a hike, you know, and I want you to wear your backpack and I want you to fill it with some books. So you had a little weight and I want you to make sure that you don't stop moving for 60 minutes out on a hike, you know?



(00:49:40):


And so that's like very basic, you know, bench squat material, right. And then you move up to the air squat. Okay. Now we're going to maybe do five minutes on the bike at 50 RPM after five minutes, or you can go and walk around the building and you come back, you're going to do it again. And you're going to do it again. You're gonna do it again until you have accumulated 30 minutes, but you're going to take those little breaks in between. So it's a little bit more manageable for you. Okay. And we do that for weeks and weeks and weeks, and we, you know, give you more repetitions doing it and then, okay. It's time to move up to the goblet squat of breathing. Okay. We're going to go with a three minute, you know, on the bike and you're going to go at 55 RPMs, and then you're going to take a three, three-minute break and you're going to repeat rinse and repeat, you know, so this is a very crude way of thinking about it, but, you know, really go back to the basics.



(00:50:33):


And I think that's where a lot of people make the mistake is that they, they, they see circuit training or CrossFit or high-intensity stuff, and they see people breathing hard and they're like, Oh, that's how I do my conditioning. Well, that's super complex. It's super complicated. It's very difficult to learn how to pace yourself when you're having to worry about the variables of like landing on the box correctly, getting your toes to strike the bar at the right time and keeping, and then throwing the ball to hit the target and doing enough reps, and then your muscles hurt and like, forget about what your, how you're breathing or how you're managing your, you know, system. There are just too many other variables to think about for most people. So yeah, it's kind of like, and then from there, of course, there's the front squat, you know, equivalent of the bike. And then, and then maybe at that point, it's time to test you again on the 10 minutes. So you put you back on the 10 minutes, like, oh, I've got 15 more calories this time. Like, okay, he's learning, he's learning. Or maybe you didn't get any more calories, but instead of going super fast, super slow, super-fast, super slow for 10 minutes, you learn how to go the same pace the whole time. Yeah. Which is that's progress. If we're trying to teach you how to be more sustainable in a breathing environment.



(00:51:54):


I can see not only for myself, but I see that as somebody who's preparing for, let's say the open as something's so valuable, like it's such a, like a dark horse type of tool, or like, man, if you learn that it's going to separate you from so many people because you just have this heightened sense of awareness and these different gears that you can control that many other people haven't caught on to yet, or at their stage in their journey. Like they're just discovering, you know, wow. There, there are other gears that I need to explore beyond a hundred or zero. Yeah.


(00:52:29):


Yeah. I mean, it certainly, for some people, it can be a game-changer when it comes to, you know, something like the open. And then for a huge percentage of the population, it's just about gotta be strong enough and you gotta learn how to do the reps to be successful in the open. So yeah, there's a couple like big keys out there that would help a huge portion of the people. Like if you can't do a chest to bar, then that's where he should focus on getting stronger in your upper body pulling. Don't worry about breathing. Cause when the workouts got Chester bars in it, you're not going to be able to complete it. Right. So but there is certainly a large component of, you know, people or a large percentage of people that participate in, in, you know, these events and they don't understand kind of true pacing and therefore they don't really get to express their potential, their true potential as you know, athletes because kind of burned themselves out in the first two minutes of the seven-minute workout.



(00:53:28):


And that has so much to do with, you know, their training leading into it, but also the adrenaline of competition. If they're in a live competition where there are fans, people are cheering, you know, they get out of there, it's just, they get ahead of themselves, right? Like, ah, that was not how I practice that. You know, I was so much calmer and practice, but I got out here and I just got, I got excited, you know, and, and that's where it's truly a sport and you have to learn how to play your sport. Right. Cause I could be, you know, a minus-three handicap golfer when I'm just playing in my, you know, on a weekend. But if I turn to show up to the tournament and their pressures on like I'm struggling to, you know, sink putts and I have a bad round and you know, it's like the pressure of competition can mess, mess up people's plans like that. So to that point, you gotta put in thousands of hours of doing it, you know, and, and those are the hours that and repetitions that I've accumulated over the past seven years doing, doing that type of training.



(00:54:30):


This leads me into thinking about the why, which is something we've we keep coming back to, you know, every guest that comes on like there's always some hint at how important that Y is. And I think if you've been following along for quite some time like you've gotten some context around how to find you why and why it's important, how it feeds into every other part of life. And for me, I've been able to discover certain parts going through this, like, okay, why am I doing this? And you know, maybe this sharing, this will be a good example for other people to kind of investigate for themselves. But like I realized for me, you just breathing a little bit better, getting a little bit stronger exploring through this movement. Like my application of it is over the next 10 years or so.



(00:55:28):


Right. I want to, I want to dabble with like break dancing with jujitsu with a little bit of calisthenics with Florio, like Edo Portel style stuff, like making the movement look pretty and exploring like all the stuff I'm doing in the gym. How do I hang when it comes time to apply this in a completely different environment? That to me is exciting, you know? And so the individualization aspect of that for me, you know, couple, a couple of weeks ago, I did that, you know, finished the conditioning piece and I told you how to like, dude, I feel light like her for like an hour after that, I could just sit there sipping on my, you know, revive RX cover, just like not doing anything. And you were like, you know, maybe that this, you know, you hopping into this intensity zone is, is not fulfilling for you.



(00:56:29):


It doesn't come back to what you were saying. It doesn't align with what you were saying about using training to have more energy throughout the day to be more creative. And to like you know, for me like taking a, taking a break dancing class or something, I can't, I couldn't imagine, like I want to do about, I can't imagine adding that on top of what I'm already doing. Right. So that becomes like, okay, there are all these pieces that I hadn't even thought about. And you brought that up for me just by like kind of putting a mirror in front of me or, you know, from an outside perspective, being able to point that out and that's extremely valuable. Right. And then that, for me, it was like, okay, how do we adjust that? Because I think if you have the mindset of like, you're almost like this machine that you can like to optimize, you know, you can feed yourself different types of foods, different types of training and movement, different types of art to, I dunno, get fulfillment, whatever it is you're looking for.



(00:57:30):


At least, I view myself and like my day-to-day, that way, like I can organize it the way that I want to, to get the most bang for my buck. And that's how I view training as well. And that's where that the value of individualization for somebody who's not competing, which is not me like my goal isn't a competition, but somebody who's just looking to explore. And that's my, why that's where I kind of saw the value when you were able to point that out for me, I was like, Oh. Like, okay, we have, like, we could tweak, like I could keep doing, you know, 3.0 and you know, the breathing progressions, I could have things that are more specific to me. I could, I could somehow figure out, you know, how this training volume, can I cut this down so that I can now do a day of breakdancing and then practice this skill work on my own. Yeah. Like that to me is exciting. It brings excitement back into training and it's me moving closer and closer and yeah, it just, it makes the whole process so much more fulfilling. And I've seen how this propels me into creative endeavors and stuff, which I value a lot and how it helps me with other clients and things like that. So yeah for me as that individualization aspect has just, it's come out over time and I'm discovering it through these little like conversations and bits and pieces.



(00:58:53):


Yeah. I think, I think you're S you know, and I'm glad that I was able to say that at the right time or see it, you know, happen and just reflect that back to you. Right. Because it's and it's something I think a lot of people are experiencing and they're just kind of not really aware of it. They're blind to it. And what I'm speaking to and what you were speaking to is this, this might, your training becomes like, sort of an all-consuming thing where you gotta, you gotta take the pre-workout to do the training. Cause you got to get enough energy to do it. And then, you know, after the training, you're so wiped out from the training that you don't feel like doing much else. And if I were to ask you, why did you start training in the first place?



(00:59:37):


Like I was like, well, cause I wanted to feel better and I wanted to have more energy and I want it to look better. And I'm like, okay, well, where do you know, where, how closely are aligned is your training program right now? Like you got to take, and I'm not saying you take, pre-workouts like, you know, five scoops for before a session, but people are, you know, they're throwing back pre-workouts and they're, you know, drinking all the potions. And then they're like, you know, going, taking naps after training. And they're not really able to focus at work cause they just had a hard session. I'm like, is that what you were after when you started this? Or did it just kind of, you just sort of spiraled a little bit, you know, into something that you hadn't planned on, therefore having somebody around to kind of reflect back to you and ask those tough questions and then know that like, okay, well there is an alternative, there's another way to do this.



(01:00:34):


That can still make you look good, feel good, and have created, you know, bring creativity into the rest of your life, you know, inspire creativity. Which for me is, has been such an interesting balance over the past eight years. Right. Cause I, I, I fell in love with training before there was competitive fitness. I mean, I was playing sport in college, but you know, it was, I was riding the bench. So I wasn't exactly. I mean, I was training because I loved it and I was training because I wanted to get better. And I didn't like to have the anxiety and the stress of like, you know, game day or anything like that. And you know, the training I needed to do to get better just, it was, it served my kind of bigger purpose and goals and what I wanted and then I get into, so I get really into fitness and training and it's like, I got to choose what I wanted.



(01:01:33):


I went, did this. Oh, that was hard. But made me feel good. I feel energetic, you know? And then you know, I lifted weights, Oh, that felt good. You know, I'd go for a bike ride. Oh, it felt great. You know, I feel energetic and I'm getting more fit and I've looked good. And then someone's like, Hey, try this thing where you can like compete against other people, like lifting weights and running. I'm like, Oh cool. And for a little bit, it felt like that too. And then very quickly it turned into something where I was like, man, this is hard. Like I'm sore. And man, I get nervous when I go to compete. And you know, some of these training sessions are brutal. Like I can barely, you know, I'm, I'm really overstressed and you know, injured. And yeah, that was a number of years of that, you know?



(01:02:14):


And so I'm making this conscious choice to do that. Even though my passion training came from look good, feel good, you know, look good, move well kind of thing. And then I'm competing in fitness. And then I make that my goal for a little while and I sacrifice some of that to feel good because it didn't feel good for a lot of it. And you know, it's, and so anyway, yeah, it's and then, you know, the individual journey for me continues still to this day where I'm now juggling more factors in my life and knowing I want to feel good and show up for my family and show up for work and my, you know, coaches in a way that I'm present. And, you know, I was telling you this morning, I got some workouts prescribed to me today from my coach that I read last night.



(01:03:03):


And I was terrified when I read them. I haven't been nervous looking at my own workout plan in like probably eight months, you know, since I think February 19th I did, or February, sorry, that was, that was Noah's birthday, February, like 23rd. They announced a workout, the open first open workout. And I of course got nervous and was stressed about it and did the workout. And then, you know, the rest is history. I kind of withdrew from the open, so forth, but it's been a long time. And I was like, Oh, you know, like I read it before I went to bed and sleep great. Like Megan's trying to talk to me. I'm like totally in another place, like thinking of, so it's amazing what, like just a simple prescription can do for a client, you know, it can, it can consume their thoughts, it can stress them out or it can, you know, do the other thing. Right. And there's always a balance for each person. You know, I don't want to just let you coast through life and never have to face something physically challenging as well. I don't want you to just, you know, and I don't want you to show up four out of the five days a week and, you know, be in like kind of a lactic stupor for the last, for the next hour after he finished training, you know, where you're just on the floor and you're not being productive.



(01:04:14):


So, well, those are two perfect examples. Like you are a competitive athlete that still has a bunch of other priorities that you're also trying to pursue. And there's individualization around that. And then for me, it's like, I don't have competitive aspirations, but I have, you know, I see it as a way of feeding creativity and exploring movement. And the reason I bring that up is that for somebody who's outside of our system and the, you know, and the OPEX education system and even me before actually, I was, you know, I was here and immersed in this. Like I thought, like, who would, who that doesn't compete would sign a year contract to work with a coach and pay this much money to work with a coach. Like it didn't register. It doesn't register for a lot of people. Like, why do I need that?



(01:05:09):


You know, and to me, it came back to see like when we fine-tune these things when things are aligned, it brings fulfillment in a lot of different ways. That's beyond training. And I think we're exploring that more and more as we're working with clients. You know, a great example is like somebody who, you know, reached out, he's a, he follows me on Instagram, not a client or anything, but like I've had a couple of conversations back and forth with him. And I didn't even read his full message yet, but it said like, what is the importance of rest days? I haven't taken a rest day in over a year. And his goal is I have enough from previously talking to him a little bit is like to gain weight. He wants to put on weight. So him not taking rest days and then wanting to gain weight.



(01:05:56):


Like, of course, we'll investigate that a little bit more, but immediately there's this misalignment, maybe he doesn't see, but like I can see it from the outside. Right. And another example is Scotty, right? Scotty was saying the other day, like, you know, I had a console with, with Marcus and, you know, I was telling him that I was feeling a little bit more like burned out and like tired of like working out. So his sessions in the gym are like two days per week or something. And three days he's outside, he's like surfing one day a week. And like, I don't know, doing like mountain biking, mountain biking, yoga. Yeah. So it's designed based on like, okay, at one point a couple of months ago that was serving him. And now it's not because maybe he's gotten a little busier with work or who knows what, but like it's evolving and he doesn't have any competitive aspirations.



(01:06:45):


He's just an everyday kind of guy he's fine-tuned, you know, the system to be able to propel him in a bunch of different areas. Yes. And for me, I see, I see this, and I'm curious to hear your thoughts is like having a coach is like, you know, it's like this mentor-mentee type of relationship or apprenticeship type of model, which I have deeply believed in. Like, I think for me personally learning that way is the most valuable it's like how, how craftsmanship was like taught to people in the olden days and how you learn like a specific trade for me, it was like, I get a heightened sense of learning when I'm, you know, like we're, we're doing those case studies, right? Like I'm absorbing things so much faster. And that's the reason why I think partly like why I've, you know, went from one side of the coast to the other to be able to pursue that apprenticeship mentor, mentee type of thing.



(01:07:43):


Because I saw the value, not only in training but like in everything else too. And I don't know like I think having, you know, I'm sure you see it all the time. We see it with ideas. Like it goes beyond the training aspect, like having somebody who listens to you who can hear what you're saying, who can reflect certain things back to you. It's more valuable than we can imagine. And I think as technology continues to evolve and makes leaps and bounds and we become busier and we're looking at a screen even more than we already are. Yeah. That one-to-one connection becomes even more.



(01:08:20):


Yeah. I think you hit some really key points there. You know, I think the why would somebody need a coach? You know, it starts by understanding that the coaching relationship is a bigger relationship than just writing a program. You know, it's somebody who's there to be, you know, support to you and help maintain consistency in your life when things change. So that's kind of a weird statement I just made. But there are certain elements that people are looking for that they want to remain consistent. Want to look good, want to feel good, want to have energy, want to, you know, be, you know, quote-unquote healthy. Okay, well, you know, you're going, it's a new season. It's like, it's not summer anymore. It's winter. So you love being outdoors. Now you can't be outdoors as much, you know, and you want to maintain all of that other stuff in your life.



(01:09:15):


You want to have energy when you get to work, you want to have a schedule, but like, are you going to go out and figure out what the next best thing for you to do for movement is how about for your food? You know, some people have the ability to do that, to quarterback their own health and fitness journey. You know, it's a limited group, people that have enough self-awareness to know what the right thing to do at the right time, you know, with the right prescription, the right exercise program, the right sleep scale, you know, all that stuff. And, you know, the vast majority of people are just they'll end up spending a lot of time in transition throughout their life because they're trying to figure out what they need, what they need. Oh, I gotta go do this. Or, Oh, I, you know, I can't do that workout program anymore.



(01:10:02):


Three weeks go by four weeks, goes by, Oh, they finally find the next program to do right. And so you look at their whole year, they end up wasting eight to 16 weeks of transition trying to figure out how do I move from one thing to the next, when my old routine stopped working, right. Or stop feeling like they're aligned with me. And that's where having individual coaches is so powerful, it just makes those transition periods, which still happen for people. It just minimizes the time. And it helps anticipate when they're going to come and it helps the client work through what they need and have somebody to reflect that off of and you know, have somebody with, with a bigger scope of the fitness, you know, health continuum, that's out there and what's possible. And that's as coaches, why we need to continue to push ourselves to learn more and to get out and see different methods of training and different methods of health and fitness.


(01:10:57):


So that when the client that comes to us is primed and ready for a change, we're ready to offer them a solution or a, a next step and guide them through it so that they're not spending their whole, you know, the month of October figuring out, well, what should I do for the fall? Do you know? And during that month of October, when they were trying to figure it out, they got in zero workouts, their food went kind of off the rails because they didn't have moved to keep them motivated, to eat good, make good choices in the kitchen. And so November starts and they're, you know, they put on six pounds and they're like, what the heck? You know, I, I lost all my progress from the summer and that happens to so many people. And it's you know, it's the, it's ha it's the, it's the health and fitness.


(01:11:47):


Merry-Go-Round, it's like, I'm gonna go here. I'm gonna go to this one. I'm gonna go to this one. I'm gonna try this one. I'm gonna try this one. And it's like, you know, if you, if you have somebody to help guide that a coach, then guesses what, you know, you're still going to be able to evolve and make a change and, you know, transition in your life through different fitness methods and Mo you know, models and your food. Isn't going to look the same every single day for the rest of your life. You're going to have variety, and you're going to learn how to incorporate that in your life. But you're just going to be able to smoothly transition through those things and have somebody to catch you when things are difficult, or when you kind of get away from what you're really wanting in your alignment.



(01:12:27):


You know, when you, you know, you, you're sitting there like in a haze after your workout and Marcus comes up and he says, Hey, w what's going on, man? I got out of it right now. Like, yeah, man, I can't do anything else so hard. I'm like, maybe this isn't, you know, aligned with what you need right now. Maybe you need two fewer sets or something. Right. So yeah, that's, that's such a, it's such a good awareness that you've had. And you know, w we hope to get more people to understand that experience that appreciates that. And, and also I know that not, everyone's gonna hire an individual coach, you know and you know, then what else can we offer them? Well, we can offer them awakened training series as an opportunity to, you know, learn new principles bring new things into their life expose them to, you know, a new philosophy that maybe they've never seen before. And, and for that, I think it's still such a valuable tool for us. Yeah.



(01:13:26):


Yeah. Awaken training series, being a, you know, system of training that you can use to learn, and that you encourage this a lot, like when coaches are asking, you know, how do, how do I learn about these principles a little bit deeper, because I want to share this with some of my clients. You're like, you know, what the best way is to learn through doing, like, experiment with this stuff a lot. I know James says that a lot too is like, you gotta, you gotta, you gotta go in and put in the contractions, like, and I see that in so many areas, like, you know, going through CCP, you learn things in like a certain module. And then, you know, we're asked to like, apply it to a certain client. It's a different game, you know, sit down and you try to apply. You're going to uncover things along the way that helps that learning process. So for coaches that are trying to investigate these principles a little bit deeper and learn more about their awakened training series experience you know, you have an educational experience is something that on a very small scale, just kind of dabbling and testing with at the moment. Tell me a little bit about kind of, you know, your thought process behind that.



(01:14:43):


Yeah. I mean, I've you know, I've been coached, you know, individually for a long time. I've also during that overlap, that whole timeframe. I've also been learning to be a coach through my own exploration, through CCP, through you know, an ex you know, basically the experience of coaching clients, group settings, individual settings for a long time, and having, you know, somebody, a mentor, my own coach that I'm like, as you said, I'm experiencing my own training. And then using some of the principles that I'm learning to apply to coach to my clients, excuse me, I'm learning to apply those principles to my clients. I'm experiencing them myself. I have a coach and a mentor of my own to kind of bounce ideas off of it was really great you know, it was a great marriage of those two things in my life that allowed me to really elevate my understanding of health and fitness and exercise prescription.



(01:15:46):


And so I've always known that, like, you know, I'd say 20 50% of my clients, individual clients, both remote and onsite are coaches themselves. And they get a ton of value out of having me as a resource in their coaching journey, as well as their athletic journey. So when it came to awakened training series, you know, we're exposing people to some many people to something new. They haven't seen some of these, you know, movements before or pairings of movements or certain, you know, methods or prescriptions or philosophies. And they want to understand deeper for their own, you know, knowledge, but also so that they can upgrade themselves as like, not necessarily just coaches, but just like people that know about fitness. Right. I mean, before I was ever a coach, I lifted weights and I love to teach people about it. You know, I didn't, I wouldn't call myself a coach yet, you know, and there are people that are doing awakened training series that don't like coach professionally, or have like, you know, they're not making their living doing it, but I promise you, they love fitness enough where they're going to tell everybody, or that they, you know, work with at the office, like, Oh, Hey, you gotta do this thing.



(01:16:56):


It's, you know, let me teach you about how to do these curls. Like, Oh, you should know, you gotta do the 20 ones like they're this way. And they love to talk about that, you know, and they gotta have the knowledge to share with other people that give that's that drives a lot of people's purpose. It's like, you know, I'm able to share my passion, my experience with others. So that's kind of where we came up with the idea to do like a small group, a beta group of people that are going to get some, you know, mentorship in awakened training series from a coach who has a ton of knowledge and experience in it, and that, you know, that person being you. So people are signing up to basically have like a, you know, the, an elevated experience through waking training series, where they have somebody to give them a little bit more of the why behind what they just did.



(01:17:47):


You know, in addition, w you and I are going to put together some content for those people so that they can kind of hear from me as well, like what some of the thinking was going into it. And really, it's just, again, it's just a way to, you know, enhance the experience for the person that wants to be able to maybe, you know, share it with their clients or share it with their friends, or, you know, or really just have a better understanding for themselves so they can get more out of the training in the future. And for the rest of their life, potentially, if they take some of these principles with them for years to come.



(01:18:23):


Yeah. I immediately think of Lucas, who is a, he completed his, this week, he's completing a weekend training series 1.0, and he's starting remote coaching with me on Monday. And he's also going to be a part of the educational experience. And he's just super excited about bringing a lot of this stuff to the clients that he works with. He's already doing some of that, but to have more direction around it, I'm excited to watch his journey and see how he takes a lot of the things we're doing, and then the things that we're going to be going through in the educational experience. And what's the application of that. How does that kind of manifest for him? Now I guess, so with the educational experience, something you emphasize is like, we, you want people to go through it, whether they've gone through one point or 2.0, like, or they haven't gone through it. Like, we're not, you're not just giving away like the content of the education experience by itself. It's like, you gotta sign up and you gotta be a participant because that learning through doing is such a critical piece in all of this.



(01:19:28):


Yeah, totally. Yeah. This is you know, the best tool, the best educational tool that we're offering right now is just the awaken training series. It's like, if you go do it, you're gonna, you're gonna learn so much, you know? And then if you know, that's been, you know, that's something I talk about with my coaches, our coaches, all the time. It's like you guys got to experience this stuff. You know, learn that straight from James and have learned me for many years deeply some of these principles. And that's an area where I felt like really one of the best students was I could really experience and then translate that into words for people or into exercise prescriptions for people. And I'm still refining that as I go. So yeah, definitely experience, you know, get in there, try it try this stuff, you know, whether it be through awaken training series or hiring one of our coaches to get a dose.



(01:20:27):


And then as you go through this and you get experience doing it, the questions start to come up and that's when it's good to have a place to ask those questions and to know where to go, to get some answers, you know, and, you know, we're providing one, one source. And of course, you know, our, our resources OPEX, and they provide great resources too, to understand some of these principles as well. And so anyway, it's just it's an opportunity to sort of deepening that understanding a little bit. Once you've already had a little bit of, you know, hands-on experience with it.



(01:21:04):


You, you hit the nail on the head when you said, as you're going through it, then the questions start to come up. And that's when, like, the learning really happens. Right. That kind of, for me, I can think of like, okay, learning what we're doing in CCP, learning what you taught in case studies apply it. Okay. What questions do I have? Literally last night, Carl pill, we posted a six-step basic thing to a break dancing, right. Learning the first like the fundamental aspect of it. And I immediately messaged him. I was like, dude, I want to see you like, talk more about this because he ended up a video saying you know, try this yourself. And you're going to have more questions. Like, this is going to bring up more questions about the movement for you. And that was like, you're right. Because me watching that, it looks easy and it's like, okay, I get it. I see what he's doing. But I know the second that I mess around with it later today, I'm going to be like, Whoa, like what came up here?



(01:22:02):


I get that. I get that question often on Instagram people, DME, Hey, what's this exercise good for, like on functional bodybuilding, they see the exercise of the day. And I say, well, did you try it? And they're like, no, not yet. I'm like, go try it and then ask me again, you know, like, cause you're going to have your breath. You're going to come up with an answer yourself. And that one is often more important than the answer I might give you because you really can like understand more deeply like, Hey, this is what I felt. And then the question that comes after that is going to inform that even more. So, you know, get a, get an experience doing it before you, you know, fill yourself with an answer. And that's kind of that that has so much carry over to so many things that we do in coaching, you know, from how we do nutrition coaching.



(01:22:48):


It's like, someone's like, tell me what to eat. I'm like, no, wait a minute. Yeah. Right. Like what did, what did you already eat? You know, what did you first? Okay. How did that make you feel? Okay. You know, let's manipulate this one thing. All right, go try that. Now. How did that make you feel? You know, what did you notice? How'd your body changed? Okay. Let's try this, you know, and there's gotta be some doing before we just slap a bunch of, you know, knowledge and answers on people, because then there's, it's, it's just not going to as deeply ingrained into who they are and what they know. Yeah.



(01:23:21):


Yeah, absolutely. Cool. So I wanna, I wanna hit you with one rapid-fire. It's one of my newer ones. So let's see, let's see how this goes. So let's say well this is more, yeah.



(01:23:34):


Can I just say one more thing before we get into that? I think the viewers will find this amusing yesterday in our coach's meeting. Can we talk about this for a second? We had an experience, we're doing some coach development were trying to let's see, we're trying to really just learn more deeply how to connect with our clients and with each other as a team of coaches. And so w the icebreaker drill that we did was we stood up MSPBA and you and I stared at each other in the eyes for two minutes, straight, dead silent. And I swear, I feel like I learned more about you in those two minutes than I've learned over the past six months or seven months of getting to know you. And if, if anybody out there wants to, like, they have a partner or someone they work with, I encourage you guys to try this exercise and it's just stand up hands at your side. Nobody's talking, no, you're not allowed to talk, try and go for three minutes of just direct eye contact.



(01:24:38):


Yeah. It's insane. How cause before we did that yesterday, I was, I had experienced doing it, I think, called speaking circle. And it was within the older woman who was in a lot of pain. Like at that time she came into that with so many physical ailments that were, you know, just bothering her. And she was expressing that like that was going on. And yeah, there it's uncomfortable. There there's some discomfort at first when you guys are like, just, there's no talking, you laugh a little bit at first, but then it was like this as a human to the human type of connection that you can't describe. Like it made us realize how much we feel space. Like we don't have negative space. It's just like any there's some silence or whatever. It's like small talk here, small talk there. Yeah, I dunno. Like, I think, I think what you just said that just trying that exercise alone, it is so valuable.



(01:25:35):


Totally. Yeah. Negative space doesn't work well on podcasts. Yeah.


(01:25:41):


Well, you know what, dude, I've learned that it does, but me listening to myself like I do that. I have this instinct to fill the negative space right away. Right. When, like I should slow down a little bit more, but it's, it's been a work in progress. One thing I've been thinking a little bit more. Alright. Rapid-fire me. Oh yeah. So for actually first, before the rapid-fire, I want to bring this up. Like you put out a lot of content on social media and I've been doing that now as well. And I see, I got somebody messaged me and was like, must be nice to work out all day. And I was like, Whoa, is that the vibe that you're getting? Just because I'm posting a couple of times a day at work. Like people think that that's all I'm doing all day and I'm like, dude.



(01:26:27):


You just, you just pushed his buttons. No, no.


(01:26:32):


That ring for me is like, I'm sure that happens to you. Like people look at you and they're like, Oh, he just trains all day. And after being, you know, with you, like throughout the day and seeing what your schedule is like, yeah. It's like, it's crazy because it's, so, you know, you come in, you have concerts going on. You're you know, you have another business that you're a part of that you have responsibilities for. Then you have a baby and then you have to get you am session in back to consoles to do some programming, coaching development. That's a lot of you're putting a lot of time and energy into that. So it's like, you know, I dunno, w tell me a little bit about kind of what the real-life schedule for you looks like. I mean, yeah. Being an athlete having a baby, you know, a family is a part of two businesses, coaching development, like walk me through that really.



(01:27:24):


Well. It's yeah, it's chaos. It's organized chaos right now. And it's welcomed because it's all things I want to be doing, but yeah, I mean, what's on social media is the training, you know I am an athlete, you know, you called me a competitive athlete earlier to be a competitive athlete, you have to be doing a competition. So I haven't done a competition in a while. So I'm just an athlete right now. And yeah, and that's, that's great, that's just been my ex that's how I express a lot of what's happening for me, you know, from a coaching perspective as an athlete and, you know as a business owner, it all kind of can get, you know, express through the social media channel. So that's what people are seeing. Yeah, I get the question, like, do you ever take rest days?



(01:28:16):


And I'm like, you know, just because I posted it on Thursday, doesn't mean I did that workout today. So yes, I, I w we rest, you know, Thursday, Sunday, no, no exercise. And then yeah, I mean, I still train more than the average person for sure. And to be honest, it's, it's probably the thing that is, you know, creating it's, it creates time conflict in my life. You know, I still want to get my training in, and I'm, it's, I'm B I'm feeling pulled in a lot of other directions. So, you know, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Friday, Saturday, you know, got about a 60 minute am session, which is basically where I refine my pacing and my breathing work. And then there's a 90 minute to two-hour PM session where I continue to develop my strength and skill and you know, ability to apply breathing practices into mixed modal stuff.



(01:29:18):


And that's it, you know, and there are not 30 minutes of warmup in 30 minutes of cool down. And I don't do tons of mobility at night and that's, that's it, like, I just turn it on, lace them up, get the workout in, and then shut it down, which is different than it was years ago. When it didn't have the business, did multiple businesses, the, you know, multiple coaches working underneath me side-by-side with me, I should say. Yeah. And, you know, baby and a wife and a house and those things. So things, the landscapes changing for sure. And I still get to connect with clients on a weekly basis, which is great. I still get to connect with the coaches. I get to be creative. I get to spend time with my family and yeah, I mean, I wish there were another five hours in the day. It'd be awesome. But we'll, we'll keep trying to find the balance and all of it.



(01:30:21):


Yeah, no, I always think it's great to look at people's routines in their day-to-day. Just because it can be, it's so easy with social media and just kind of your perception of a person of like what's going on with them. When it's so much deeper. And I don't know, it's always interesting to dig into that.



(01:30:42):


Social media has to be seen for what it is, you know, and, and I've had a lot of clients and one particular recently that's, you know, it can have a negative impact in that it can give a false perception of what's real, what's out there. You know, I mean, I'm not training all day every day, you know, and I might show, you know, a total of 5% of my training, you know, the other 95% is different, you know, and you know, and, and what’s happening for athletes, competitive athletes, they're showing the highlight reel and they're not showing the lowlight reel, you know, and, and that's where, you know, I've had, it's happened to me. It's happened to my clients. Oh, I see. So-And-So that lifting so much weight and, Oh my gosh, they never take a rest day. They're just hitting its intensity all the time.



(01:31:35):


And I'm like, do you think that's really happy? Like, and then they get down on themselves because they're not PR during every day. And they're not feeling 100% every day and it's just, it can create a little false sense out there. So certainly I've tried to, you know be honest about that. I'm on social media as much as I can. And you know, transparent really is the word it's, it's not all, you know roses and peaches, you know, it's hard, you know, and I don't balance my life perfectly by any means. And it's a struggle sometimes, you know, and some days I'm like, man, maybe I shouldn't train today because I've got these other obligations that I need to do. And you know, I think sometimes like it's three hours a day of training five days a week, does that even support what is most my highest value right now in life? And sometimes I'm, I have to like really think about that and I don't know, you know, so anyhow.



(01:32:35):


Awesome. Okay. So rapid-fire right. Yup. I have noticed that anybody who has achieved a high level of success in anything, whether we're talking athletics, business, just personal fulfillment, you name it. I think that behind, you know, their journey, at some point, if we were to look back, there came a point where, you know, you had to jump and you didn't know what was going to happen, but you knew that you had to jump and, you know, the parachute didn't open up right away. You know, you were torn up by cliffs, clothes came off, like, and the parachute finally opened may be much later than you kind of wanted it to. Yeah. Right. Can you think of, you know, a time that comes up for you that you know, kind of matches the situation, like think of a time that you jumped, right.



(01:33:28):


It's very specific. Yeah. Go for it jumped. I dropped out of medical school. That was a big parachute, you know, jumping out of a plane moment for sure. Or hope the parachute catches me, but I got to jump you know, I think it was 2009. Nope. Yeah. 2009. It was my second year of medical school and I just was as depressed as I'd ever been in my life. And I just knew I was not on the path towards what I was supposed to be doing. So, you know, the momentum was, was strong behind me heading into that. And you know, I needed to literally like take a leap, you know, and I had a little bit of a safety net behind me, you know, I had a supportive family, I had an option to return after a year, but it was scary for sure.



(01:34:24):


And then the second one was, you know, early 2016, I chose to dissolve my business partnership. So I'd been in a partnership for five years and had built a gym in a community with my partners. And I knew that we were starting to kind of diverge in terms of what we wanted as partners the vision of our company. So, you know, it was, it was another jumping-off point for me where I re that, that time, I, I didn't know what was going to come on the other end of it. And for I mean, I'm happy to report that we're a year and a half out the parachute did, you know to deploy and where we are. We are S we have a, so we've had a soft landing and now we're running again, you know, which is great.



(01:35:17):


What kept you going through that when you didn't know that the parachute was going to kind of open up or maybe you did, but how did you kind of pull yourself through that?


(01:35:28):


Well, I think with medical school, I learned that I wasn't diversified as a person. I had one thing and I had, no, that was it. All my eggs were in a basket, which if you're in the medical profession and you're headed down that road or you're in a professional school, like you kind of have to be. So as I got older, I made the choice to not find myself in that position again. So I was diversified in what I was capable of doing, you know, I had a lot of eggs in the business, you know, basket, and I had put a lot into it over the years. But I was also, you know, leaving that business. I still had competitive CrossFit that season to really focus on, which propelled me pretty far. I had an individual coaching business that helped propel me, you know, and keep me going.



(01:36:19):


I had, you know, my, my wife who I just married a couple of months prior shortly after that got pregnant. So I left the business and within, I think, two months of dissolving the partnership we were pregnant. So, you know, these are strong motivators for sure. And all of that really kept me going and, and I think just you know, probably having the first experience of knowing like, okay, as I recovered from a huge leap, you know, and it was, it was the right thing to do, and I ended up better off as a result of it. So I kept that story in my head on this most recent one.



(01:36:59):


That's amazing, man. How can we support your journey? How could people kind of sign up for a weekend training series? This is the third run of it. I believe registration opens up Monday. And then even the educational experience, if people want to be a part of that where would you like to point people to.


(01:37:19):


People should head over to revival, hyphen strength.com forward slash ATS, backslash ATS. Anyway, you go to our website sign up for awaken training series. As, as you're listening to this registration will be live and it's an opportunity to experience something new and awaken something inside of you. And it could be a jumping-off point to some deeper experiences that you have in fitness, through revival strength. So go over there, see what we're about. And yeah, I think that's pretty much it.



(01:37:59):


Yeah. with the educational experience, if people want to be a part of that, I know that you know, it's limited to like 15 people. There's an email going out today and people already who are signed up. So that may be, who knows it could be full by the time this is out. But I believe there will be like a waitlist set up, you know, people can kind of fill out if that's something they want to learn more about it.



(01:38:24):


Absolutely. Yeah. If you guys are interested in, and maybe just another layer to the awakened training experience, you want to have you know, some mentorship over the next 12 weeks from MSPBA and get some content from me in addition, in addition to the program then yeah. Look for, look for, not looking for an opportunity to do that. And an email that would come and do, if you're on our email list, or you can email support@revival-strength.com and probably in the header, just say, awakened training series, educational experience, and we can get you either signed up or on a waitlist for that. But that should be a really great addition that we're doing 3.0 this time around.



(01:39:07):


Perfect man. Well, thank you so much for coming back on and doing this. It's always a blast. Every time we get a chance to chat.


(01:39:13):


I love it, man. Thanks again.


(01:39:15):


Thank you so much for listening guys. I appreciate you taking the time to tune in and lending me your ears. Two things I want to leave you with before you head out. Number one, if you are a coach or a gym owner, head over to airborne mind.com and check out some of the free resources we have for you there, I and a clinical psychologist are partnering together to create a course called the art of connection through questions. It's something I've loved and studied and has fulfilled me for years. And to be able to finally put this together in a way that's going to help other coaches and gym owners connect deeply with their clients is super fulfilling for me. So if that sits well with you, head over to airborne mind.com and check it out. Number two, leave a review on iTunes. It's the best compliment that you can give. And it would mean the absolute world to me, but other than that, hope you enjoy this one until next time.



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