Gut Health, Supplementation, and Nutrient Absorption w/ Marcus Filly
Marcus Filly is back on the show! He really opened up my mind to a lot of things in this episode. If you haven’t listened to his last one (Functional Bodybuilding), I highly recommend you check it out. It remains the most downloaded episode to this day.
Marcus painted a very clear picture with vivid examples of how to view your relationship with nutrition when designing it as a part of your lifestyle. He gave a perspective on what it means to be dedicated to a quality nutrition program over a long period of time. Completely outside of nutrition, he drops a lot of gems that are sure to get you thinking.
In this episode, some things we chat about:
How do you sift through all the B.S. in the supplement industry?
How do you choose your supplements on a budget? What should you spend your money on? What is waste?
How does gut health relate to stress, energy levels, and how sick you get?
How does gut health hold someone back from having a thinner waistline?
(6:15) - “Every ingredient has to serve a purpose -- that is not just filling bag space.”
(12:00) - How do you choose and test ingredients that go into supplements?
(21:00) - What to do before thinking about calorie counts and macro breakdowns
(24:10) - Liquid nutrition
(33:50) - How much protein can I take in and absorb at once?
(40:00) - How do we optimize gut health so we can absorb nutrients better?
(45:00) - Is it reversible? How to clean up your act
(47:45) - How does gut health affect me if “I want a thinner waistline…”?
(50:10) - “Poop is one of the most available sources of information about how your digestive system is doing.”
(57:00) - How to shop for supplements on a budget
(1:04:00) - BCAAs
(1:06:00) - Sleep issues
(1:13:00) - Routines and Rhythms
(1:14:15) - Creatine
(1:17:15) - Egoscue
(1:23:45) - Long term and short term success
Resources we may have talked about:
Bristol Stool Chart
Powdered Greens Supplement (first thing Marcus consumes every day)
Ep. 17 - Functional Bodybuilding
How you can connect with Marcus:
Hey, this is Marcus filly and you're listening to the airborne mind show.
Hey guys, Misbah Haque here. Thank you so much for joining me today. And welcome back to the show. Today is the 26th episode. I can't believe we've already done 25 episodes so far. Hopefully, you found at least one of the past 25 somewhat useful and you've taken away something actual from it, or it's made you think or made you curious in some way, shape or form. I had somebody come up to me the other day, one of our gym members and he was like, yo Ms. I tried out a brain dump yesterday and I started laughing cause I'm like, Oh my God, like, that's so exciting. Like you're a fellow brain dumper now, you know, he told me about, you know, something that was on his mind and he put it down on paper. He's like, I've never tried it before, but I said, let me give it a shot.
And lo and behold, it hasn't been consuming his mind for the past couple of days. And in fact, he's actually gone back to the brain dump and he's been adding to it and refining it. And it sounds like he's having fun with it. So that's kind of what makes this worthwhile for me is you guys finding something, whether it's from me or one of the guests running with it and seeing what happens and hopefully it helps you in, in some aspect of training thinking or just life in general, before we get started, make sure you head over to the airborne mind.com and you check out some of the coaching videos, checklists, guides, warmups, all that good stuff. See what is most relevant to your training right now? And it's free. So take advantage of it once again, that is the airborne mind.com today's podcast is brought to you by audible.com.
So I made this page it's called the airborne mind.com forward slash reading list. And it is pretty much a collection of all the books that previous guests have recommended on the show. And if you want to, you can grab a free audio book and 30-day free trial through that link as well. So once again, that is airborne mind.com forward slash reading list. So today Marcus filly is back on the show. And if you haven't listened to his first episode called functional bodybuilding, I highly recommend you check it out. It is still the most downloaded episode of all time. But I'm just fascinated by this guy. You know, last time we had a blast this time we had a blast, he's probably going to be back on the show because there's so much more to talk about. And we spent quite a decent amount of time in this episode, talking about supplementation gut health and nutrition overall.
I wanted, I wanted to kind of get past the, you know, macro counting and the nutrient timing and all these nitty-gritty details for a little bit. And I wanted to just dig a little deeper. I wanted him to give a, you know, bigger picture on how we should be looking at nutrition when we're kind of designing our lifestyle and designing our food profile. I certainly am not well-versed in nutrition. It's not my best suit. So a lot of the stuff was just, you know, me being purely curious. I wanted to know what's it like being in the supplement industry how, what goes into, you know, creating protein how do you sift through all of the? You know, what do you spend your money on and what is a total waste? And he certainly helped answer a lot of those questions and gut health.
It's one of those things that we know is important. We hear a lot about it, but it's like, okay, how does this really apply to me? How does this apply to how much energy I have in the day? How does apply to how stressed I am? How does it relate to my goal of wanting a thinner waistline or how does it, you know, relate to my performance? There are so many questions I had around this and he did a wonderful job, you know, giving awesome examples and just painting the picture for us completely outside of nutrition. There are just a couple of points here where, you know, I had aha moments and things clicked for me. One in particular where he talks about long-term and short-term success. And I don't want to ruin it for you, but just keep an eye out for that. There are just so many things that we touch on in this episode, you are for sure, going to walk away with something useful. All right. So with that being said, please enjoy Marcus. Welcome back to the show, man
And Ms. With. Thank you for thank you for having me back. It was a great, great chat we had last time and I'm excited to be back on the show. Yeah, man,
Your episode was the most downloaded and I believe it still is, which is pretty awesome. It seems like people love to learn a little bit more about bodybuilding. But nutrition is another one of those things that we tapped into a little bit last time. And I always get questions about this as well, and I'm definitely not in a position to get in detail and answer people's questions. So that's why we have you here today. We're going to pick your brain a little bit on, you know, supplements, nutrition, and really what the bigger picture looks like.
Well, thanks for, you know, I mean, thanks for setting that stage and you know, it's, it's an honor that the previous podcasts we did was so well received and downloaded and you know, I mean, people do like bodybuilding, but I feel like my hairdo maybe played something into why people were so interested in watching. No. Yeah.
So you know, I went to the Arnold classic last year. Right. And it was my first time ever going there. And dude, I was blown away by the number of supplement companies that actually exist. I had no idea like just in this giant room like everybody's selling supplements and everybody claims to have clean products. You know what I mean? So I'm curious, like, could you tell us on a bigger picture, like what the industry looks like, like what are the laws and regulations when you're kind of going into kind of make a supplement? How do you really figure out what is real? What is good for me? What, you know, what can I what is worth my money? Really?
Yeah. Wow. Well, I think first and foremost, if you're listening to this and you've never been to a fitness expo, or more importantly, a bodybuilding competition and you're in the fitness, even if you're doing CrossFit or you're just in like functional fitness, it is a worthwhile endeavor. It is eye-opening to say the least because bodybuilding has been around for so long now. And the culture is, you know, there's a lot of things that were borrowed from that culture that have made their way into, you know, fitness CrossFit. So you can learn a lot by going in and just seeing and, and, and just cruising around the, like you said, like the, the tabling section or the expo center where all the, you know, supplement companies are. And yeah, I mean, if anything, it's just good people watching for sure.
And I've been to the Arnold classic myself. I lived in Columbus for a year. And so I went when I was living there and it's if you can make it out to that particular expo, it's unreal. But yeah, to, to, to your question, you know, the, I think the short answer is the supplement industry is not well-regulated at all, you know, and really you know, the FDA puts some regulations on what kinds of things need to go onto supplement labels or, you know, like something as simple as like, is your, is your product a nutritional product or a supplement? Are you writing nutrition facts on your product? Or are you writing supplement facts on your product? You know, what needs to be disclosed in terms of ingredients? What can be kind of covered up as proprietary blends, where you don't have to disclose the amount of a certain ingredient?
So it, it's, it's such a mixed bag out there. And you know, I think that even like in the CrossFits space, for example, you know, people are seeing lots of different supplement companies that are trying to make an impact there, but it's a pretty small amount relative to the big world of let's say bodybuilding supplements that are out there. And, and I think part of the reason is that we have a pretty educated group of, of consumers in the functional fitness or the fitness community. They, you know, they demand honesty, you know, integrity out of their companies. You know, these are, these are the types of consumers that have asked the questions about, well, why am I doing this type of exercise? They're not just kind of blindly, you know, following what, you know, what their coaches are telling them and the coaches, and a lot of these you know, gyms and boxes around the country in the world are telling you, this is why we're doing it for them.
They're getting some of the answers to the questions. And that's carrying over to the supplement market in this, you know, space. So, you know, to just say, Hey, this is going to get you to the best pump. And this is awesome. You got to do this and just a flashy bottle, you know, isn't really cutting it anymore in this market. Now, how do you sift through all the stuff that's out there? How do you know what's, you know, what's clean and what's not clean. And I think, yeah, I think w w w I created kind of a philosophy that you know, essential ingredients, right? Like everything that you're doing has a purpose, whether I'm coaching somebody in like a a fitness program, like why did I do that for my warmup? It has a purpose. I didn't just write something up on the board to fill time, you know, and I'm not just putting an ingredient on my ingredient list because it's a good filler and it fills up some bag space, right?
It makes the bag that's two pounds or the bottle that's five pounds, you know, actually only have a pound worth of real ingredients that do something for you. And then four pounds of ingredients that are just filling space that make you feel like, oh, I'm getting bang for my buck kind of thing. So that's one thing. And so when you're reading ingredient labels and supplement facts supplement ingredient lists, you know, it's things, things need to be, you need to be able to explain why something's there and, you know, it could be because, you know it is a really effective ingredient to help recovery, or it's an essential building block for muscle repair or it's you know nootropic that activates your brain chemistry in a way that helps you either focus or, you know, there are parts to the supplement industry that really do come down to palatability, right?
Like we're taking supplements that in their raw form can taste horrible. You know, anybody that's ever bought some, you know, branch chain, amino acids in bulk off of bodybuilding.com, you know, the cheapo version. Cause they were trying to save some dollars. They realized that was a bad choice. Cause this stuff tastes like poison. And I think I'm going to vomit taking it. So you know, you have to go into the chemistry of how do you actually make something palatable and what's like a, you know, what's a safe way to do that. And what's kind of a cheap and easy way to do that. What, you know, uses artificial ingredients, what uses more natural ingredients. Again, those are terms that also have that are pretty loose in the industry, but, but you know, something's got to mix, well, it's got to taste good. Otherwise, it could be the best and most effective thing on the market, but no one's going to touch it. Cause it's just, it just tastes good.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So you studied molecular biology at Berkeley and so I'm curious, like when we peek into the process of what are some things that you're looking at to put together something that's palatable, but also effective at the same time, what does that process look like when you're choosing like, okay, I want this to go in there and I want this to go in there and we gotta make this in there so that it tastes good. Like, what does that process look like?
Well, I'll be, you mean, I have to just kind of upfront like my, my background in molecular science and physiology and undergrad was really understanding how these are all ingredients, you know, will impact either human physiology or exercise physiology impact people that are sick. As you know, I went to medical school. So I was interested in kind of how food and supplements interact with the body in a disease setting. And that, you know, also it gave me a background in understanding how to really sift through the, the research, right? So, you know, a big part of graduate education for anybody that's going into medical fields or science-based fields is, Hey, how do you actually evaluate data and determine whether something's legit and if you know, methods were correct in scientific research studies to warrant the claims that they might be making.
But what it wasn't, you know, there was no class in undergrad where it was like, okay, let's get together some whey protein isolate, and let's get together some tree, a team and let's get together some of this and let's mix it together and try and make a product. Right. A lot of that was, you know, done well after college and it was done. I think like a lot of people that maybe start off in the supplement game is, you know, I'm, I'll be personally sourcing ingredients from all over the place. Something I see that's in bulk and I'm mixing it together, you know, in my shaker bottle, in my office and saying, how does this work? Is this effective for me? Is this tastes good? How would I improve this taste? And then eventually if you're going to go through that process, you have to reach out to people that are experts in that, in that field that they basically dedicate their entire, you know career to formulation, product sourcing, mixing, and then eventually manufacturing.
And that's, you know, that's not something that is easy to do, right? Yeah. I mean, just imagine it's like, you want to have the like trying to give you something to compare it to, but you know, maybe you think about the Olympic training center for fitness, right? There's just this massive budget, incredibly, you know, bright coaches and minds and scientists collaborating, you know, just the equipment that they could, any equipment they could ever want, best athletes in the world. You know, now let's go and test something. There let's go and create something there versus, you know, I'm in my garage, I got a couple kettlebells, you know, I, I took I took an L one I've got summit information, but I'm like over here, experimenting on scientific stuff. Right. So you can, you can get results in both places, but you know, there's going to be a limit to what you might be able to do in one setting versus the other.
And if you're looking in the supplement industry, you know, mics and stuff out of your garage and putting it in bags and then heat sealing it and slapping a label on it and sending it out saying, Hey, I got this product, I got this company, you know, I dotted my I's crossed my T's. I'm legit versus working with companies that actually have, you know, the Olympic training center type of facility, where they can vet the sources of you know, their PR their ingredients, for example, where's their whey protein isolate coming from, where is there, you know, where are they getting their dextrose from? Where do they source their glutamine from? You know how do they actually batch test the ingredients as they go through manufacturing? So we got 10,000 units we just created, let's pull one randomly every 10 minutes out of the line and let's go and check it for, you know, consistency of, of what's actually on the label. Let's go ahead and make sure that there's no impurities that are in there. So we have to have infrared scanners, which are millions of dollars. We have to, you know, it's, it goes on and on and on. So, you know, when, when, when I took a venture into that side of, you know, supplement creation, and I, I recognized where my limits were and I went up the chain trying to work with companies and people that were actually really you know, experts in their fields.
Right. what does, does supplementation have any type of, you know, longterm, like side effects or anything like that on the body? Does it take a toll on you at all?
Gosh, that's I think that's a case by case kind of.
Yeah. And I guess it depends on the type of supplement we're talking about as well, but let's say that we're sticking with maybe the things that people commonly take, like a, you know, BCAs protein and things like that. Like, explain give us, you know, paint the picture a little bit on what that would do for internal health in a sense.
Well, a couple of things, I mean, number one, I don't, as far as I know, there are been no long-term, you know case studies done where we followed people on a specific supplement regimen versus a control group of people just eating normal reg like whole foods. Right. so the data's probably not out there. So anything I'm about to say is coming strictly from my, you know, my understanding of, you know, nutrition, digestion, and longevity you know, there are people, you know, there could be good cases and bad cases. That same thing could go for whole food diets, people that eat really low-quality food, people that eat high-quality foods, you know, is eating food for longterm, going to impact your health. Maybe, you know, it could promote good health or it could make you really sick, right. Is, you know, supplementing for a long period of time, good or bad for your health.
It probably could be both, you know, and I think looking at food and supplements kind of with the same, through the same lens of, you know, how much of what we're taking is actual ingredients for life. And what are we taking that is, you know, not necessarily important ingredients for life or just you know, chemical compounds that have been proven in, in, you know, in a test tube to, to have some impact or to catalyze some reaction, but we don't really know, and they haven't been studied long, long enough to know what their impact is going to be in humans. So you take a supplement or something like creatine monohydrate, that's probably one of the most studied you know, performance-enhancing supplements on the market years of research and, you know, the overwhelming you know, bulk of the data suggests that it's, it's very safe for long-term use.
And and it's something that I recommend to a lot of my fitness clients to take as part of their supplement regimen. That's something that I take daily. So, you know, that that's, that's one example of something that's been kind of looked at over and over and over again in the research. But when, when you talked about like, how do these things infect affect what's going on inside of me? You know, any time we break down a whole food to its constituent parts, you know, anytime we process something down and down and down, we're losing, we're losing something, you know, we're losing something about how that was, how we were kind of evolved to take in those ingredients, right? So, you know, eating a piece of let's just go with chicken, okay. You know, I'm going to eat chicken, I'm going to chew that chicken.
You know, there's going to be digestion that starts happening in my mouth because I have to masticate and I'm, you know, I'm breaking it down with my tongue and saliva and my teeth, which is then going to go into my esophagus down in my stomach. And then stomach are gonna break that down. And because, you know, it's a bolus of food. It's not going to just, you know, get down into my small intestine very quickly. It has to spend some time in that stomach where it's going to get, you know, there's going to be some acidic breakdown. And then once it gets into my small intestine, you know, then enzymes are going to either have to do a lot of work, whether I swallowed it quickly, or if I chewed enough, they're going to start pulling out, you know, breaking down proteins into amino acids or spending, going to get absorbed.
You know? So that's a process of eating of food and all of those steps impact how we digest impacts hormone secretions impacts our brain chemistry around CAC satiation. So, you know, understanding the way things are supposed to happen in our system. And then we look at, you know, how do we break down protein? Let's say we take no protein and we break it down into way, way 13. So milk protein has multiple proteins in it. We get whey protein isolated out of it. And we put that in the form of a drink. You know, let's just now imagine that I drink this drink. I S I slurp it down. Was there any chewing that happened? No. You know, now it's in liquid form. How long is that going to have to spend in my stomach before it starts to get, you know, basically allowed to empty into my small intestine, not as long.
So maybe there's a less enzymatic breakdown that starts to happen there or acidic breakdown that happens there, you know? So I'm, I'm only highlighting that to just point out that it's different. Okay. So it will impact our body differently. You know, whether one is good or one is bad. You know, that's not my, that's not my argument. I think each has a place and we have to understand where the place is. You know, we were meant to eat food and you supplement your entire life with liquid nutrition. I think that there's probably going to be some breakdowns that happen over time. You know, they have companies that are, are marketing, these all encompassed meal replacements, that's, you can just live off of I know a couple of companies where they're like, Hey, you know, we're targeting a group of computer programmers that don't like to get off the computer.
They like to stay on the computer all day and have time to break, you know, for a meal. So we give them, you know, liquid nutrition that they can drink all day. They're going to be more productive. They might be healthier than if they just skip meals all day, but you compare that to somebody who's taking the time to sit down and eat and chew food and, you know, get in whole ingredients. Yeah, I do. I do believe there's going to be some long-term consequences to that. Can you support a healthy diet ongoing with the use of supplements, like supplementing an actual food-based diet? Definitely. I think that that's, you know, it's my, my beliefs and something that I practice for almost 20 years now. So yeah, so I, I could keep going, but I'll stop and let you kind of,
Yeah, no, the, I guess the lens that we're kind of looking at supplementation through is that, you know, cause I know for myself like I've gone through periods where I'm like, okay, I'm going to take, you know, one to two protein shakes a day to make sure I'm getting in my protein requirements. Then there have been times where maybe I'm not taking any protein supplements, but I'm trying to do that through just regular food. And when you actually add all that up, it's, it's tough to get all of your protein from real foods. You would just have to eat a lot of it. So what I guess, how should we view supplementation? Because for me it was like a matter of convenience, right? It's like, okay, I could take the shake that is, you know, 24 grams or if I put milk in it, it's, you know, 30 grams and a, this would, you know, this would help me get to my daily goal of whatever it was 135 grams of protein. So what does that lens that we should be viewing supplementation through and how that ties into how like just our regular meals throughout the day?
Hmm, yeah. Yeah. Well, I think the lens that I, I, I looked through and I'm sort of the philosophy that I preach to folks is that, you know, there, we, we, we have to first establish good nutritional practices and quality nutritional practices. So understanding, and let me preface this by saying that my bias is towards creating long-term healthy relationships with food that will last my client or the individual well beyond their, you know, maybe sports performance or their aesthetic goal, you know, period of time. Right. Because I think that that was something that when I was younger, I overlooked, I jumped too quickly into how do I achieve certain numbers and macronutrients and calorie counts in order to get this result aesthetically that I didn't build a base of understanding of how to, you know, eat for wellness and longevity. And then honestly adapt excuse me, adopt practices that I could, that could translate to different goals in my life, whether it be to, you know, look good, perform well, just generally have good energy be healthy.
You know, there's some underlying principles that really go hand in hand with any of those. So the lens is let's evaluate that and work on that first. And that typically happens with, you know, a food based approach versus a supplement-based approach. And I think that getting that set up in a client or in a person's life, you know, is, has to happen before we start to look at, Hey, how do we, how do we impact ourselves with supplements? Because let's say you're trying to get 250 grams of protein a day. Okay. That's a huge number, you know if you're going to just eat food, all right. But you're going from eating, let's say your, your daily, you know, you know, landscape of your diet looks like, you know, milk and cereal in the morning, you know, a sandwich with like two slices of Turkey on it at lunch and then a dinner of pasta. And you're like, I gotta get two 50 grams of protein from that. Like
You're going to be like, I need 20 shakes a day. Like I need to just crush shakes and yeah,
But you didn't actually change your food profile first to get you closer to that goal. Right. Cause if we give you, you know three eggs, two-piece of bacon you know, and fruit in the morning, and then we give you as you know, you know eight-ounce chicken breast at lunch with like a salad, you know, with some nuts on it. And then at night you're having, you know, steak potatoes and roasted vegetables. Okay, well now we're up at like 120, 140 grams of protein, maybe more, you know, depending on what you had in terms of size and serving size and so forth. So now getting the two 50 means having maybe two shakes, right. You know, it's like, or adding in some protein here or there, or maybe having a snack, you know, mid day because you realizing the more protein I was eating it's actually enhancing my appetite or it's making me more hungry.
I'm actually burning more energy through eating higher protein you know, having higher protein intake. So then you add in a snack, you know, mid-afternoon, which is also a dense protein snack that you, you know, come up with something like a Greek yogurt, maybe mixed in with some chia seeds or something like that. And so now you're, you're even closer to your goal. Okay. And then it's like, all right, this is kind of my limit, right? Like this is how much time I have to spend eating food, sitting down, chewing it, right. Allowing it to digest correctly. And I still haven't gotten to my goal. You know, at that point, maybe your goal is to change. Maybe you're like, I'm killing it. Like someone told me I needed two 50, but I'm at one 80 and I'm feeling awesome. And, you know, getting, you know, losing body fat or I'm getting stronger, I'm recovering faster from my training.
I have more energy, you know, and then, then we start talking differently about how we're going to fit supplements into your life. If we still need them, let's say, you do still need them. You're like, I still want to hit my two 20 Mark. Okay. It's a 40 gram, you know, a whey protein shake that you're gonna have at 11 o'clock in the morning, an hour and a half before, you know, you're having lunch, or maybe it's a post-workout shake that you're going to have that, you know, fits into your day because your training and your energy demands are up for that reason. So hopefully that answers the question of like, just the lens. It's like, we're going to start big, and then we're going to get, you know, more focused on our
Specific needs. So you really to cover the bases
I guess what you were saying with I mean there are companies like Isagenix, that's one that I've gotten questions about as well. And I don't know too much about it. I haven't looked into it too much, but from the way that it was described to me and I pretty much-drinking shakes as like meal replacement stuff. And it's like, it works, but at the same time, it's, it's kind of like a band-aid or it's kind of like a shortcut because you're not really learning the principles of how you need to, you know, maneuver your nutrition a little bit and how you need to mold it. So when you stop doing it, you know, you're probably going to put all the weight back on that you just lost, right?
Yeah, totally. I mean, 'm saying this because I'm the guy that had multiple run-throughs with liquid nutrition, you know, anybody who follows testosterone.net or teenage son for any period of time knows that there was something called the velocity diet that was out there. I did that. I think I did it twice. That's, that's, that's four straight weeks of protein shakes, like five, five times a day.
Tell us a little bit more about the velocity diet.
Yeah. The velocity diet is like it was, let's see, I think the foundation of it was basically drinking five, five 30 gram protein shakes a day, roughly. And each one had like some black seeds in it. You know, there was some fish oil that I had, I think it was like, I was able to have like an espresso in the morning, but that was it. It was, it was literally just protein shakes. And then one meal a day, I mean, excuse me, one meal a week, one meal a week was like oatmeal and like blueberries. And it was super effective at losing body fat. Like I, I documented like a four-week thing back when I was in my early twenties. And yeah, I, I went from like, you know, I was, I was like coming off of I think I had just traveled abroad to Asia and I'd kind of had an injury at the end of college.
And so I was in Asia, not training and just kind of let myself go a little bit. And I got into some bad rhythms and I think I was like 205 pounds, like not good, 205 pounds. And I think by the end of the velocity that I was like one 80 and I was like lean and ripped, you know, but, but as you said, like, I was not in a good place. I didn't have systems in place to like manage good, healthy eating practices. You know, this was like a bandaid to fix. Like what I felt like was some kind of train flying off the, off the rails. Like I was like, Oh my God, this is the first time since like college sports where I'm feeling like I'm putting off like a lot of body fat. I'm not like I can barely no visible abs anymore.
I'm not feeling like doing, you know, all the various things that make people feel, you know, discouraged and self-conscious, and I'm like, I'm gonna fix this thing. And look at my willpower is going to get me through this and I'm gonna drink shakes for four weeks. And it was, you know, effective and then on effective. And then it all kind of unwind, you know, unwell afterward and those results were not long, you know, sustained. Right. So that's not a knock against liquid nutrition as a, as a tool to achieve some quick results. Right. I use that with clients before. But I was, you know, sure. To make, you know, make absolutely sure that we had good practices in place. We came on and off of it at a, a pace and with an understanding of how we were going to transition back to real food and how we're going to implement quality into that real food practice. And then also, you know, making sure that when we're doing liquid nutrition phases that, you know, they were not extended periods of time. And so, yeah, again, it's like, there's no right or wrong. There's just look at the specific person's, you know, situation that they're in. And, you know, there's, these are just tools that I can only feel confident even attempting to use because I've, I've experimented with so much. Right. There's all that I had a chance to kind of see this stuff firsthand.