• Misbah Haque

Intentionally Building Trust w/ Dr. Sean Pastuch

Dr. Sean from Performance CareRx is back on the show! The first half of this episode was very tactical and technical. We reflect on the Open workouts, benefits of carrying, and ideal ratios for general fitness programming. There’s even a protocol for Knee Tendinosis that some of you might find useful. Without a doubt, the light bulb moment in this episode lies around the concept of building trust with your athletes. Whether you are a coach or athlete, hang tight and take notes. I have a strong feeling you’re going to walk away with something actionable from this one.


Show Notes:

  • (4:30) - Reflecting on the Open workouts

  • (8:50) - The role of your ego and mindset during the Open

  • (11:40) - Why Dumbbells in the Open is a great leap forward

  • (15:24) - Ideal ratios for general fitness programming throughout the week

  • (19:46) - Suitcase Carry vs Waiter’s Carry

  • (24:28) - Getting creative with Farmer’s Handles and why you need to get a pair

  • (25:28) - Sandbag Carry

  • (27:30) - Farmer’s Carry

  • (30:06) - Overhead Hold Test

  • (34:50) - What’s happening when your body is shaking

  • (36:14) - Building trust with athletes

  • (46:04) - Affirmations

  • (54:50) - Tendinitis vs Tendinosis

  • (58:55) - A protocol to follow for Knee Tendinosis

  • (1:05:48) - The Active Life Podcast

Resources we may have talked about:

  • Farmer’s Handles

  • Start With Why

  • Daring Greatly

  • The Active Life Podcast

  • Active Life Coach’s Program (Use “Airborne Coach” to get 10% off)

How you can connect with Sean:



(00:00:00):


Hey, this is Dr. Shawn with the active life and you were listening to the airborne mind show.


(00:00:35):


Hey guys, Misbah Haque here. Thank you so much for joining me today. And welcome back to the show. Before we get started. Two things that I would love for you to check out. Number one is all the training resources that we have up@theairbornemind.com, which is the home base. If you head over there, check out what is most relevant to you right now, and sign up for the newsletter. Number two, please head over to iTunes and leave a five star review. It only takes you a couple of minutes and I would love to hear what you think good or bad helps me out with the rankings helps me get more people on the show. And yeah, if you've loved what we've been putting out so far and you want to keep seeing more of it, I would love to hear your thoughts. So once again, head over to iTunes and leave a review.



(00:01:15):


Now today's podcast episode is brought to you by audible.com. If you enjoy psychology, if you enjoy learning about how the brain works, how we think, how we process and organize information. I think you're going to enjoy this book that was recommended to me by a D cashew it's called mindset by Carol Dweck. I don't know what took me so long to get to this one. I've heard many other people talk about this as well. But yeah, super fascinating. If you enjoy learning more about your brain and how you think and how you work. So if you want to head over to the airborne mind.com forward slash reading list, you can grab a free audio book and 30 day free trial there as well. So today, Dr. Sean from performance care RX is back on the show. Last time he was on, I believe it was episode 11 and 12.



(00:02:02):


We got into a ton of tactical information. If you are somebody who's experiencing any types of aches and pains, hips, knees, shoulders, ankles, lower back, highly recommend that you go revisit those episodes because they give away so many tools and tricks that you can start applying pretty much right away. In this episode, we talk about, you know, the open workouts. We talk about what Dr. Shawn has been up to since the last time around. They've been doing workshops all across the nation, helping coaches in person and remotely. I actually went through their coaches program for the lower body assessments and got a ton of value out of that one. They have a podcast that just dropped on iTunes to make sure that you go subscribe to that. It is the active life podcast where they're going to be talking to a ton of people, way smarter than me.



(00:02:51):


And so I'm excited to dig into that. If you are somebody who's a coach and you are looking to learn more about the shoulders and want to join the coaches program to get your athletes ready for Murph. And obviously beyond that as well, we dig into the details in this episode, but he was nice enough to give us a discount code for airborne mind, readers and listeners. If you are planning on joining it is airborne coach for 10% off. So a I R B O R N E, coach C O a C H. So definitely go check that out. If that sounds interesting to you. But with that being said, I'll let you get to the episode. Hope you take away something from this one and more importantly, hope you do something with it. Dr. Shawn, welcome back to the show.



(00:03:34):


Thank you, Ms. But I love being on the show. Yeah.


(00:03:36):


I I always love having people back on because you were on for episode 10 and 11. And so, you know, it's been like 20, you know, 23 episodes or so four months or something like that. So a lot happens in that time and I've been keeping tabs with you guys. You have a lot going on. So how's everything been going with you? How's life.



(00:03:55):


Life is good. Life is busy. I have Jeremy has, as you know, I mean at the time when, when we recorded last time, he had a four plus year old and an infant. Now we has still an infant is a little bit, they are who moves around a lot more. So he's busier. And his daughter is older and more active. Of course I have a two year old who at the time was just sitting in a corner crawling a little bit. Now she's up and running around the house and talking in full sentences. And my wife is due to have another baby in about a month and a half. So a lot going on. Yes. Thank you.



(00:04:30):


So tell me a little bit about the how you feel about the open season. This year's open season, we saw more dumbbells. We saw some unilateral movements and things like that. How did the open season go for you? What were your initial thoughts kind of going through the workouts week by week?


(00:04:45):


Yeah, so the open season, that is a loaded question. There's a lot, there's a lot to that question. Speaking personally I have not been keeping myself in the best shape over the last year and that's not something I'm proud of. Right. It's something I tell people to do as I do. And as I say so I need to do better. But I have been waking up early working out on my own the last few months to try to get myself back into the groove a little bit. But as far as personally goes, I did better than I anticipated doing. I was still able to snatch some weights that I didn't think I'd be able to snatch, which was cool. I did not do 17.5 because that was a rough week. I didn't sleep much and I didn't want to throw myself into heavy deadlifts on no sleep. So I did not do 17.5, but I felt pretty good about one through four. I'm sorry. Five was not the deadliest. That was four. Yeah. I didn't do the thrusters one.


(00:05:42):


Gotcha. in terms of kind of comparing it to previous open workouts any, any initial thoughts you guys were doing a pretty cool series where you were giving out warmups and things like that for each workout. And you have a very cool series now that you were kind of wrapping up on why you sucked during each open workout. So tell me a little bit about your thoughts when we kind of look back at previous years, workouts.


(00:06:04):


It was why you might have sucked, like, because some people didn't, but you know what, the open is interesting right. In that I feel like, unless if you finished top 20, you think you did terrible right there, there are some people who are like, Oh, I moved up by a hundred spots and they're happy about that. And that's cool. But for the most part, people, for some reason, seem disappointed with how they did in the open, right? It's like as if he could control the other 300,000 people who were working out at the same time, what they were doing every day and their gyms and, you know, in preparation I loved this year's open. I loved that there were dumbbells involved. I loved that there were, you know, unilateral movements involved for me. That was very cool. I still have a little bit of a problem with the, the mental approach to the open, which is everybody can do it.


(00:06:52):


It's universally scalable. And it's what CrossFit's all about. So if you go to a CrossFit gym, you need to do it. By the way, we have squat snatches in the open when orthopedically, that's not really scalable for some people. But now to have the psyche of, I need to do this, I'm not cool. I'm not a CrossFit, or if I don't do it, but it's not so good for my head. So my low back, cause I don't have that range of motion. I never do it in the gym during the year. Screw it. It's the open I'm going to do it. And then they get hurt. So that for me was the one little if I had to nitpick this year, but otherwise I loved it.



(00:07:27):


Yeah, me too. It's a tricky thing. Right? Because every year the level of competition is going up and up and we see that not only at the regionals and the games level, but in the open as well, like we've got more complex skills and movements and the envelope is constantly being pushed little by little it's, it's a tricky, it's a tricky topic to get into.


(00:07:46):


I feel like they need to keep pushing it because the thing is, you know, in 2010, 2011, I did my first open and you know, I couldn't snatch 135 pounds. Not at all. I'm the second workout was snatching and I had to get, you know what, no, that was in 2012 and get my years mixed up, man. But, but the point is that, you know, back then seven minutes of burpees was, was a great workout. And I still wouldn't be now, but people have evolved past that as, as a measuring stick, you know, it's now it's okay. We can do complex skills in the open because the bottom 15% have been exposed to this. I think that they need to keep on pushing that envelope forward. It's just, it becomes less inclusive even though they have the scale division.



(00:08:30):


Yeah. I agree with you. How, how has kind of, you know, the athletes that you guys have been working with and, you know, getting them back to living daily life and resolving, you know, shoulder pain, knee pain, hip pain have you noticed any change in their attitude and mindset approaching the open?



(00:08:51):


We try to impart a mindset change before they approach open, right? So depending on who we're talking about, if you're talking about the elite athlete, the guy or the girl who's going to go to the CrossFit games, most likely we're not usually their primary coach, right? So that person has somebody else who they're working with, whether it's, you know, a brute strength coach or Nick feller over brute strength, my casual brute strength, or, you know, CJ Martin from Invictus. We, we don't necessarily work with those coaches, but we work with those athletes. And what we do is we give them our little piece. And when we're working with an athlete at that level, who has a coach at that level, and I don't know why I said CJ Martin, we don't have any of his athletes in particular, just name that came to mind.



(00:09:38):


But when I'm working with an athlete who has a coach, who's that involved in their program, we tried to let their coach take control over that, but we don't discuss so much of the mindset going into the workout. It's with the athletes who don't have that coach who is necessarily paying attention to their mindset or who don't have a coach at all, who will start discussing with them. You know, what are you thinking about? Why are you thinking about that instead of how does, what you're thinking about make you feel right? But we, we are much, much better suited staying in our lane, which is making sure they can.


(00:10:17):


Absolutely something I've, I've noticed, at least in our gym here is people who are coming back from injury. It's like you have a new, new perspective because your level of gratitude is now you've kind of lowered it, right? Because you got used to doing all these movements and you were going gung-ho and, and you know, just kind of in a sense, maybe beating up your body in some ways. And then when you get hurt weather, or you start to get aches and pains, you start to notice like, Whoa, I can't, you know, I can't raise my arm over my head anymore, or I get pain getting out of my car and things like that. So I feel like you start to appreciate what your body is capable of a little bit more. And that's been really interesting to see, you know, those people you know, approaching the open with a bit of a smarter mindset.



(00:11:04):


I think that depends on where you are and who you're looking at. It's also the people who were like, Oh, it hurts when I do this, but it's the open. Right. Okay. And you know, no, as far as I'm concerned, it's just, you know, March 16th. Yeah. It's, it's, it's not anything different. It's, it's still your body doesn't know the Dave Castro said, you need to do this this week. It just knows it can't do it, you know, not right now. So I think it depends, it depends on how well checked a person's ego is how well they're going to be able to handle that.



(00:11:39):


So tell me a little bit about the dumbbell snatch workout, right? Why, why might have we have sucked during that workout? There were some unilateral movements going on there and it's just something different. Like we've definitely it, you know, day to day, maybe in your class wads, but it's the first time it was in the open. And it was really interesting to see there was a lot of volume. So what were your thoughts on that?



(00:12:02):


Well, the thing, you know, if you watched our, why you suck, why you might've sucked video one of the things that we talked about was that not only was it a unilateral exercise, but it was also what's called the transverse plane exercise, meaning that you were forced to rotate, right. By reaching down when the single arm in between your legs and grabbing heavy objects on the floor, throwing it over your head, you're basically asked to twist, right? It's not huge, but there's a little bit of twisting. There's a little bit of resisting rotation there as well. And what we find is that most athletes in the CrossFit space, who we work with are not well exposed to that. They're if you're doing it in the gym, it's, it's once every two or three months, right. They're not coming in and banging out suitcase delish for the single arm, doing single arm carries you know, doing single arm snatches. I mean, we have people doing single on deadlifts from a Sumo position all the time. So for us it was like, Oh great. Our athletes can to hold them really well to this because we're not prepping them for CrossFit. We're prepping them for life. And in life, you need to be anti rotational and rotational in CrossFit, typically in the past, you didn't really need to be. So for us, that was like a, this is awesome. As far as we're concerned, CrossFit is moving the envelope forward to a health standpoint as well.



(00:13:21):


You can also I feel like with something like that, you can notice, you know, which side is weaker. Like I was coaching a class the other day and we had dumbbell thrusters, which I swore was going to show up for 17.5, but it didn't. But you can see with something like dumbbell thrusters, if somebody left arm is significantly weaker and they're going to press overhead. Like, I, I can think of one gentleman right now who the right arms flying up there and the left arm is like this, right. Just halfway. And that's like, you know, whether you like, without getting into details, that's definitely something that needs to be addressed in some way, shape or form. And so I feel like the dumbbells are able to expose some of that a little bit better. What do you think?



(00:14:00):


Yes. There's that, and there's, there's also the idea of we're gyms. We should have dumbbells, you know, and, and I, I was absolutely guilty of the contrary. Right. And, and my, one of my head coaches, his name is Robin Maloney. He was, he's been with us now for about a year and three months and very short into his tenure. He's like, Hey, I'm going to buy dumbbells for this gym because we need dumbbells. I was like why, what do you know? No. So he bought them and I was like, listen, I'm not going to let you pay for these. I paid him back for the dumbbells. Now our gym has dumbbells and he was right. You know, like the gym needs, we're a gym, right. Another friend of mine telling me bride Owens cost at five, one six, and I was, we were back and forth complaining about, you know, just, just having the conversation about affiliate owners and how are they going to manage this?



(00:14:55):


Do you have a small gym? Or you will need, you don't have any dumbbells now you need to go out and buy them. And he's like, yeah, just, just say out loud, you know, I have to buy dumbbells from my gym and a complaining way and see if anyone gives you any sympathy. And I was like, yeah, it's true. It's a hundred percent true. So when the opens came out, we went out and bought three more, three more pair of all of the weights that we needed and we were perfectly well-stocked. So I love that CrossFit is starting to evolve in your life.



(00:15:23):


I totally agree with you. Could you touch on some things that maybe people could do to include more of that rotation or that the transverse plane into their training, maybe it's in their warmups, maybe it's in their cooldowns. But when we think of even, you know, when we see the dumbbells being utilized in the open, a lot of it is there's this element of explosiveness and, and, and you're under a timed pressure and things like that, but maybe walking away from that and doing something that's a little more focused and controlled. What are some things that kind of come to mind for you that people could benefit from?



(00:15:59):


Well, let's, let's start with, with the idea of why it's important, right? Because the number one cause of lumbar disc injury. So our lower back disc, which is the, basically the little shock absorber in between the bones, the number one way that you can injure that is with coupled flection and rotation. What that means is basically doing a dumbbell snatch, if you lose your spinal position, right? So if you lose your spinal position, if you saw people rounding their back and reaching down to the ground and just kind of ripping up that person is at risk of injuring their lumbar disc. So this, this starts with the idea of being able to preserve the proper position. So that doesn't happen, right? So we have to start there and then we go to the affiliate owner, or whoever's writing the programming for the gym, because as much as we're talking to athletes, now they're not going to be able to walk into their gym necessarily like, Hey, I want to do this program.



(00:16:54):


It wouldn't be advisable for them to do that. Right. So I think that when, when you're an affiliate owner or you're a coach and you're writing a program, you need to be considering quality days, you know, just general strength days general conditioning date. It doesn't need to be walking into the gym, do a strength, do a skill, do a gymnastics segment, do a workout. You know, it could just be, let's work on this until we're good at it. And then we're going to do a workout, including it. Right. so one of the things that we recommend often is that people carry at least twice a week, right? And when we say carry it doesn't, we don't really care. What kind of carry could be an overhead carry. It could be a yoke walk, could be a farmer's carry two arms, one arm, sandbag carry.



(00:17:46):


We just want you moving an object from point a to point B twice a week. And the reason we say twice a week is because most people are squatting three times a week at minimum. Unhinging three times a week. Ideally that's the lineup, squat and hinge three carry, push, and pull twice ground to shoulder or ground to overhead ones. That's how often we want to see people loading things. So as long as those ratios are in line, we're good. We like to see those different kinds of movements done both in prep work. So we'll have people will go out and do a heavy carry to start their day, right. And say warm up. And we get them warmed up. There's no go warm yourself up, but warm up like this, right. And then grab 40% of your one rep max deadlift with a single arm and take it for a walk as far as you can take it rest until you're fresh.



(00:18:39):


And do it again. And repeat five times on each side or six times on each side, right? You don't start that way, but you start a little bit later. And the nice thing about that for a programmer is that's a very low skill movement. And when I say that there are purists out there who are cringing. They're like, it's not low skill to carry heavy object from point a to point B. I respect that. Not I'm not minimizing that, right. What I'm saying is that for a CrossFit gym, giving somebody a farmers' handle and saying, keep your core braced, try to lean into the weight as opposed to away from the weight and take it for a walk there's less to do than there is when you're teaching someone how to snatch. There's less to look for from a CrossFit coach's perspective, right? And people are typically going to be safer doing that in the margins of good versus great than they are a snatch or a clean and jerk, or even a kipping pull up or a muscle. So building those into the beginning of classes as a high CNS load, relatively low skill is a great way to get people started.



(00:19:45):


So could you dig into the suitcase carry, which you just talked about holding a farmer's hand or a kettlebell out by your side one arm and then a waiter's carry, which would be like a front rack position on one side what's going on in those two movements, what's kinda different about them. What are we kind of targeting there?



(00:20:05):


So if you, if you're listening and you're, and you're trying to figure out what the difference is, a suitcase carry would be literally what it looks like. You, you, you grab a suitcase, you pick it up and you walk with it. You're going to be able to have to handle a very heavy load in that position, right? As long as you can grip it, you can handle a pretty heavy load. In fact, we'd like to say that people should be able to carry 55, 0% of their one rep max deadlift for about 10 meters. That's the goal, right? More people believe it or not can do that. Then carry out 50% of their 10 rep max dead lift for a hundred meters, which we also want to see you be able to do because the time when there's tension just isn't had, we grab something heavy, we let go pretty quick.



(00:20:47):


So this case, Carrie is going to be the way it's pulling down towards the ground. It wants to pull your body towards it. So you kind of have to lean away, even though you're not leaning away, right? Your body is having to keep you upright by keeping everything on the opposite side, turned off waiters carry is similar, except the weight is higher. It's up by your shoulder. Think about a front rack position with a kettlebell or within dumbbell, right? That's a waiter's position. Now we'll have two differences. That way being higher, the center of gravity is different. It's going to function as a heavier load, right? So it wants to pull you down. It's going to compress on your ribs, make it harder for you to breathe. And it's also going to require some active shoulder, you know, L elevation's the wrong word, but some active shoulder flexion and abduction to keep the weight where it needs to be. So your shoulder becomes much more intentionally involved in the movement. So typically people can't move as much in a waiter's carry as they can in a suitcase carry, but we program both.



(00:21:50):


Okay. So what would you recommend for, you know, gyms that don't have farmers handles yet? Yeah.


(00:21:59):


But you know what it's it's, I don't mean to interrupt. I mean, I do mean some drugs to you, but I don't mean to offend you by interrupting you, you know? And we, we get it all the time. It's Oh, well, my gym doesn't have farmer's handles. So can I just use a heavy dumbbell? Yeah. You know, but my gym, my gym doesn't have a bar belt. Can I just use an actual bar loaded up? Have you, it's not the same. Right. You know, it's a farmers handle is an inexpensive piece of equipment in terms of in the scope of what you need for your gym. Right. You can get a farmer's handle for where you can get a 45 pound bumper plate for maybe even a pair of them. Right. and they don't take up a lot of room, put some hooks on the wall and you can hang three to four sets of farmers handles. If you're only having people use one at a time. No, for a single long farmer's carry, they're more versatile for you to use than an assault bike or a rower, which costs a thousand dollars a piece. Right.



(00:22:56):


Yeah. I like multiple. I like how you gave the, a percentages because that gives people some context as to you said, what 50% of your deadlift for 10 meters.


(00:23:08):


So take whatever you can dead lift. And let's say, for example, you can deadlift 200 pounds for 10 reps, divide that in half, you should be able to carry that for 10 reps. And for us, one rep is 10 meters. Got it. Right. So if you can double the 400 pounds for one rep, you should be able to carry 200 pounds in a single hand for 10 meters or one rep.


(00:23:31):


Got it. So you don't, you don't really want to be afraid to load this movement up since it's somewhat low scale. And if you let's say for now, in the meantime that you don't have the farmers' handles, you want to be kind of leaning towards the heaviest that you can handle. Maybe it's a 75 pound kettlebell that you guys have, or maybe it's a 70 pound dumbbell.



(00:23:51):


Yeah. The, the problem with the kettlebell and the dumbbell is that people will grab a kettlebell and have to basically swing it away from their body. Right. Cause there's that, there's a big circle at the bottom, the big sphere at the bottom. And the issue with the dumbbell is that it's weighted so close to your hand that it actually feels much heavier than a farmer's handle with the same weight on got it. Right. And so it makes it really difficult. It becomes more of a grip exercise than it does a shoulder and torso exercise when you're using the dumbbell and that kind of defeats our purpose.



(00:24:24):


Okay. And I guess when you, cause you can also take that farmers handle and you can go overhead for an overhead carry. Right.


(00:24:30):


We have people use the FA so that's a really good point. Right? Cause a lot of people are like, I don't want to buy farmers' handles and just carry with them. That's what's the point there's so non-personal what are you talking about? So we have people use farmer's handles for everything from suitcase carries, you know, one arm carries two arm carries two waiters carries, right? Cause if they need to go heavy, that's a better way than a dumbbell or a kettlebell to right. Overhead carries when they need to go heavy. We have them do suitcase downloads with them so they can set them up on one side of their body, stand up on a riser. And now you're doing a download from the floor. That's anti rotational. We have people doing in place of a hex bar deadlift, right? If you, if you want to be able to have people do a deadlift it's from the sides where they're better loaded, they can have more weight. Now you have essentially a hex bar only it's they're unilaterally loaded. So at, and I'm sure there's other variations that I'm not even mentioning, but they're much more versatile than they appear when you just look at them for what they seem to be used for.



(00:25:27):


Mm. I think you know, in the next year, hopefully we'll be seeing more and more box owners purchasing that. And we finally hear a God sandbags, which I'm excited about and messed around with them the other day. Could you tell us with maybe something like sandbag carries what's going on there?


(00:25:43):


So what's going on there? You know, it's funny, you know, Jeremy and I were making a joke because he moved and I moved within a few months of each other and we're like, we should just write a workout called moving day. That's, you know, carrying objects, you know, from place to place and then doing step ups with them for, you know, 13 to 16 reps, low step up, I mean go back and just do it again. Right. because that's what, that's what life is, you know? So what is the sandbag carry doing for you? It's it's doing that. You're having to stay on tension while you move from place to place. And when you're moving, one of the things that people don't necessarily realize is that you're mostly on one leg, right? So now it's, it's a single leg exercise, which means that you're having to balance from lateral stability to rotational stability, to sagittal stability, you have to make sure you're not falling in any direction.



(00:26:43):


Right. And now all of a sudden you're squeezing this heavy bag in front of you like a bear hug, it's pressing on your diaphragm. You can't breathe. Right. There's the, this is where the mindset of stuff comes into it. Right. But there's the opportunity to panic, right. And just start breathing really heavy and to have to put that half to put down and have to put down, you don't have to put it down. Right. Relax your breathing. You're going to have to be more comfortable with shallow breathing because you can't get that big diaphragmatic breath because the sandbag is pressing on your diaphragm. Right. So it's just, it's a really versatile way. It's not a versatile way. It's, it's it, it's an exercise that has a versatile effect to the person using it. Right. It's not only just a hard and heavy thing to do, but it also can play mind games with you, which I think is very cool.



(00:27:29):


Yeah. I think you guys mentioned this last time you were on the show, but FA farmers caries at some point and correct me if I'm wrong here can be used to improve ankle dorsiflexion.


(00:27:46):


Yeah. But, but we're talking about that in a can. Got it. Okay. Right. It's it's, it's, it's, it's not, we, we wouldn't prescribe heavy. Farmer's carries to improve your ankle range of motion, you know, it's, it's just that the, the, the thought process behind that is that you're going to be better at farmer's carries if your ankles move well. Okay. So if you're doing, farmer's carries, your body is probably going to make some adjustments along the way, right. Hopefully enough, but unlikely enough by themselves with farmer's carries there's other stuff that needs to be done in conjunction with that.


(00:28:24):


Right. So I guess what I'm trying to kind of connect here is once your grip is strong enough, you'll start to feel if you load it heavy enough and depending on how you prescribe it, you will start to feel it radiating through other parts of your body. For example, the sandbag carry, you would think that you're just going to feel a burn maybe in the upper back, just by bear hugging it. But when it gets heavy enough, you get tired enough. You start to feel your butt on fire with every step that you take. And there's a bunch of other things that are kind of going on. You know, if you, if you take it if you go far enough with it.



(00:28:56):


Yeah. So that's a great point with farmers carries. One of the things that people say in the beginning is this is a grip exercise. I'm not good at my grip is weak. So what's the point. I was like, well, first of all, that is the point for you right now. You know, your grip is weak. How many pull-ups do you think you're going to be able to do until you're good to go? Right. So what we tell people is kind of the normal evolution of where your feeling of farmers' character is oftentimes people feel in their hands first and they're like, okay, okay. Now I'm feeling outside of my folder right next, where they couldn't get to that, their grip wasn't good enough first then it's inside of my torso, right? Like my, my, my rebel below my ribs is released to her from this. And then finally, I believe they've been punching me in the pocket. Right. And yeah, that's, that's the sweet spot when you're finished doing farmer's carries and that day, or the next day, it feels like someone punched you in the pockets. Now you're getting the real true value for the farmers carry can do for you.



(00:30:04):


Very interesting. Okay. I wanted to ask you guys this last time you were on, but, and we briefly touched on this, but do you know the overhead hold? I've been using that word accumulate two minutes within three minutes of your one rep max strict press. Could you dig into why that two minutes within three minutes is, is the dosage that you kind of provide people and why the overhead hold, you know, in the first place is, is good to kind of implement.



(00:30:30):


Sure. The, the data nerds are going to love this. I, the trolls are going to come out like crazy. Like Greg, like raccoons on a summer night to the garbage it's anecdotal. You know what I mean? For us, it was strictly anecdotal. Like we saw the people who are able to do that. Typically haven't been in a lockout and their jerk typically caught the bar better overhead and had less shoulder pain when doing those exercises. So we just said, you know what, let's roll with it. Let's use it. Right. Not everything needs to be empirically studied to work. So, so we started with the idea of just, this is a metric that seems to be repeatable, that people seem to be able to do. And the people who can lock these things out, what it means is they have good shoulder range of motion, right?


(00:31:12):


Cause the people who can't get their shoulders to full flection and holding up are out in front of them. They're not going to be able to hold that bar over their head for an accumulated two minutes and under three and a hundred percent of their shoulder press or 110% of their shoulder. So it was an anecdotally observed, observed exercising. This, this works, let's continue doing it. And what it does is basically how many people do you see who catch a snatch and have to hold the bottom for a second while they settle the weight, put it in the right position, or they catch a jerk, but they're not quite ready to drag that second foot forward. Right? There's, there's so many opportunities where people have to hold that bar over their head and they're not conditioned to do so. What's the biggest thing. They're going to be able to do it when they need to, especially at loans that are there one rep max. Right. So we just thought that it would be a beneficial thing to build them for people. And what we find is that people who can do it, there are people who can hold them all overhead for two minutes straight, like, okay, well, your press is probably two weeks. And then we go on, we look at their press compared to other stuff and sure enough, their presses to me. Okay.



(00:32:23):


So you're saying if you can hold it for two minutes straight, then your presses too weak. Yeah



(00:32:29):


No, no. I'm saying oftentimes when we first test to people, but do you get people who come in and they'll put the bar over their head and you're like, that looks really easy now. Like yeah. It wasn't that bad. Like, okay, well, is it really your one? Is that really the one right back shoulder press? Yeah. Yeah, it is. Okay. Well, let's see how your press is compared to your, your pull-up where your press is compared to your high pole, your presses compared to your jerk. It stinks. Your press stinks. Okay. You're a jerk is happening because you're tremendous from your hips, right? So that's a person who were like, great. So holding you up right. Position for you right now is not going to be that beneficial. Right. We'd have to go heavier if we were going to do it, but it's just not worth it. You need to build up your pressing string. Got it. That's not, that's not always the case. And of course the idea is that as people who we work with are able to get closer and closer and closer to that three minute Mark with the, with the a hundred, 910%. That doesn't mean they're pressed is weak. It means they become conditioned in both. Right. So it's never, if a then B it's just typically when we see somebody come in and they just, you know, they're staring at you, like they're sipping a Slurpee. It's too late.



(00:33:43):


Right. Okay. This is something I think I've heard you guys emphasize with the overhead Carey, but something that I never really thought about too too much, but hugging your shoulder to the ear. Right? So like when you're carrying overhead, you're really trying to punch up and reach up. Could you dig into maybe the mechanics behind that and why we're emphasizing that?



(00:34:04):


So it's, it's, it's less punching up and reaching up and if that's how we're coming across, we'll have to make sure we're changing our language a little bit. It's more just getting your arm as close to your ear as possible because that's going to be the stacked position. Got it. Okay. Right. So, so what we mean by that is, you know, we don't want you shrugging overhead so much. We want you putting that bar over your head and letting the shoulders sit where it will, but keeping that arm next to the ear, because that's going to be the most vertically positioned location for the weight. Now, the force can go through the elbow can go through the shoulder. It can go through the spine where if you're out to the side a little bit, all of a sudden your shoulder starts to burn red because now it's not, it's not a stacked weight. It's a different exercise altogether. So that's what we meant.



(00:34:48):


Got it. And this is also another one. So in something like this movement, the overhead hold, or you also do this with a, you stand hold with belly facing the wall. When we start to shake, right. When we start to shake, what is, what is going on there? What's our body telling us.



(00:35:06):


You're tired. So the shaking is, is, it's a great question. I want to make sure I answered in a thorough way. So I don't want to answer too fast. The shaking is basically your body saying, okay, we no longer have access to all of the muscle fibers. We previously did. Dave tired. They're not involved anymore. So what, what are we going to do to create stability here? Where are we going to derive force from what is exactly the best position for us to in, right? So you physically, everything shakes a little bit. We try to find that perfect location where, okay, I can hold it there. And if you watch people who shake a little bit, when they're, when they're working with a heavyweight overhead, especially there's a moment of Zen for them where it's like, Oh, that's it. And if it lasts five seconds and then it's gone, then they typically have to drop the weight because they know that was the location. That's where the weight needed to be. I lost it. I can't get back to it. I need a break. Right. So, so that is what we typically are seeing when someone is shaking on an exercise.



(00:36:13):


Got it. Okay. now this one is a bit of a loaded question in a way, but we, you guys emphasize this a little bit when I was going through the coaches course for the lower body assessments. How do you kind of portray to the athlete that you're working with when something is out of your hands to get them to go see somebody right. Staying in your lane, right? It's a, it's a touchy subject, but what do you, how do you kind of view this concept? You know, when, when somebody is in pain and you know, maybe we're trying to solve it through exercise when in reality they should be going to go see a practitioner because they need further help.


(00:36:55):


Are you talking about from our perspective or from the coaches we work with


(00:37:01):


Let's start with your perspective.


(00:37:03):


We have their trust, right? So often we're not going after people. You know, we, we don't, we, I don't, I don't typically get on the phone and call someone and be like, Hey, I'd love to work with you. It's usually now people are coming to us. So they're coming to us because they trust that we're going to be able to help them in the first conversation we have with them is let's see if that's true, let's see if we can help you. Right. so once we've assured them that we're going to take you on, we're going to work with you, confident that we can help you. They trust that we can help them. So when we say, listen, part of us helping you is helping you find somebody on the ground who can do things for you in two weeks, that would take us three to four months. So they got right. And I think that that's, it's really the same thing for a coach working with an athlete. And the gym is it has to start with developing trust with their athletes. And I don't think enough people do that. I think they, they, I think it happens by accident, but they don't realize that developing trust is an intentional process.



(00:38:11):


Okay. and I guess this leads into my next one, which is, you know, the fine line between cause I saw your post recently on tendonitis, which I would love to dig into in a little bit. But when you have these aches and pains that are maybe going away, then coming back, going away and coming back versus we see people going to go see a practitioner when they're broken down and it may be they waited a little bit too long. Right. And it may be, if they went a little bit earlier, we could have saved some time that way. So how do you know, when is that right point? When is the right point to, you know, urge somebody to go see someone?


(00:38:48):


Well, first of all, it's never the wrong time. Okay. Right. It's never the wrong time because what's, what's the worst that happens. You, you waste a few minutes, you waste an hour and a few bucks. It's never the wrong time to go see a practitioner and be like, Hey, is this something real? You know, I I'm, I'm making it a commitment to get my blood work done now every year. Why I'm not, you know, as far as I know, I'm not sick. How many other people do that? You to get a physical. Right. Some people do, some people don't. But you go to the dentist, hopefully, you know? But so it's never the wrong time. But again, I think that we should probably go back to trust for a second, because I think that, that comes down to the coach and the athlete having trust in the practitioner that it's worth it to go see them.



(00:39:35):


Right. Cause that's, that's the next big problem that we run into is, Oh, well the guy I went to see last time just told me to stop doing CrossFit. Well, that's sucks. You know? So I think if, if coaches ask themselves, if they're actually intentionally developing trust in their athletes all the time, they'll probably have to be honest and tell themselves that they're not right. And it's, we're trying to make athletes great. Okay. How are you trying to make athletes not make, but how are you trying to influence athletes to trust you so that you can make them great? Right? One of the things that is like a pet peeve of mine is when a coach will say, I can't help that person they're uncoachable. Right. And it's yeah, really? Are they uncoachable or do you lack the skills to coach that person? Is there nobody in the world who could coach that person there probably is somebody who could go to that person in the world.


(00:40:28):


Would you agree? Yes. Okay. Is maybe it seems environment, maybe that person doesn't learn well in a group and you need to then be honest with that person and tell them that you would like to help them more, but you're not confident. Then you could do it for them in the group. So you'd like to do it with them. One-On-One and maybe do that first session for free, right. So that they're building trust that, okay, you're not just doing this for money. You're not just doing this because you want to tell me how smart you are, what you're doing this, because you really want to help me. Right. But you have to be constantly trying to make sure your athletes understand your intent, which is, has to be for them. It can't be for you.


(00:41:10):


What other ways do you personally build trust with your athletes and coaches?


(00:41:16):


So we, we have Jeremy and I have a coach who works with us, who basically teaches us on the communication skills and on the, you know, just all, all the ins and outs of emotional intelligence and running a business. It's, it's blessed about running a business. It's more about being a good person, which parlays into running a business. Right. but you know, what he taught us was that, you know, there there's four characteristics to trust. There's you're need to have propriety, which means you need to look the part, right? If you show up to a class for gym and the guy coaching classes, wearing a suit, you're like this guy's in the wrong field. Right. Right. But if you show up to your lawyer's office and he's wearing a t-shirt and board shorts, it's the same. Right. You're like, Doug, I'm not here.



(00:42:01):


So propriety is circumstantial. Right. And so his, so his credibility, which is next, you know, you need to now know the part. So you need to, you know, if you don't know the answer, say, I don't know the answer. So when we have athletes who ask us questions and they're like, Hey, what do you think of this? What do you think of that? If I don't know, I'm going to tell them, I don't know, because I want there to be value when I tell them what I do know. So it's having credibility and always having credibility, always having propriety. So they shouldn't see you at the bagel shop for breakfast, you know, looking a mess. If you're the guy who they're with their friend, Judy, with considering bringing to your gym, and then they want to introduce you as the head coach. And you're like, Oh, Hey, I'm the head coach.



(00:42:44):


But you're hung over from the night before you have a hoodie on your face is a mess. You smell like. And it's like, Oh, this is my head coach. When I told you it was so great, like they're not going to make the introduction. Right. Or your friend's not going to come. So propriety is always right. And credibility on the topic, you know, is always, you have to be learning all the time, then there's commonality, right? What do you have in common with that person? So the idea of, for example, one of our coaches, our best athlete in our gym, and then there'll be a woman in a class who has nothing in common with him. She's 60 years old. She's jumping up on an 18 inch box, which is a win for her. Right? What does he have in common with her? He's got to find it.



(00:43:27):


You know, first of all, you're both into CrossFit, right? Second of all, does she have kids? Oh, she does. Are they your age? Cool. Are they competitive? Crossfitters? Yeah. Awesome. You have that in common, right? Do you like the color blue? Are you into summertime? You have stuff in common. Find it. So the person feels less uncomfortable talking to you, right? If they feel commonality, they're not going to feel difficulty having a conversation with you. Right. And the last thing is intent. And that's the hardest one that that's when I've struggled the most with, because I have a very fast go, go, go, go, go, go, go mentality. And I tend to steamroll people and drag people behind me and pull them to where I need them to be. But they're exhausted when we get there and I'm like, let's go, let's start. And like, no, I'm shot, man.



(00:44:19):


You just dragged me here. So I've had to slow down and work on other people's level. But the idea is, you know, if people understand that you're always doing it for them, what's there not the trust. You look the part, you sound the part and you have things in common. You're there for them. You're giving, you're not asking what, why wouldn't they do what you asked them to do? When you say, Hey, I think you need to go see the doctor. They're going to be like, Oh, well you've done everything right until now. So what would make you think that this is the first time you're going to do something wrong?


(00:44:53):


That's really powerful, man. Yeah. I mean, there's so much more to coaching than just the actual, you know, starting the clock and guiding people through the movements that it goes up to a much deeper level.


(00:45:04):


Yeah. I have one I mentioned before, but Tyler McBride, he's a good friend of mine and he just you know, he just ran his first 100-mile race. He was an ultra marathon. I interviewed him for my podcast about a week ago. And you know, one of the things that he always talks about is your trainer until you've had a member cry to you, then you're a coach. Right. And that's the difference is it's like, yeah, you're a technician. You can, anyone can teach somebody how to do a snatch. Anyone can teach somebody how to do a clean. And again, the purest out there, like you could do your snatch. Like I can, no, I can't find you went. Right. But when, but you're not like coach until someone's talked to you about something that's unrelated to the gym, right. Because how much are you really helping that person to approach what they're going to do when they get there? If all you've ever talked to them about is what happens once they've arrived.



(00:46:01):


Right. You're using, and I've been saying this a lot recently, but the movement is a vehicle to authentic expression, right? You're using everything that's going on in the gym as a vehicle to something much greater something that's much more you know, whatever your values are. So for example, I think the mindset is something that you place a high value on. I saw you post something about reading positive AF affirmations to your daughter every morning. And that's actually something really powerful that I would love to get your thoughts on. How did you have experience with that? How did you kind of come about that? And do we have, you know, is it beneficial for us athletes to be using something like that?



(00:46:40):


So for me growing up, it was less intentional as far as I knew, I know I wasn't really a mindful person until probably maybe a year ago. I mean, I've, I've been able to surround myself with some people who are really influential on me. And I had great parents. I have great parents. I have a great family. It's not something I didn't have that there. What they did was kind of they've led by example, they've led by words. It just, you know, my father could be a billionaire. He would still be the dumbest guy in the world because he's my father. I'm never going to listen. I listened to him on some stuff. I go to him for advice on some stuff. But at the end of the day, he's my father. And I can only take that so far. I need someone to come to smack me in the face with reality, who doesn't love me, who knows, who can, who I know is telling me the truth because they have no reason to lie to me.



(00:47:30):


But so, you know, for me growing up, my father always used to tell me, you know, I don't know what I can't meet. I can't, there's nothing you, you can, it's just might be hard. And I believe them, you know, like for me, I was like, Oh, I can be a pro baseball player. He was wrong. Right. Or he was wrong because of the actions I took, maybe who knows. But, but the point is, it doesn't matter. I never, I've never gone into something thinking I can't. And just because I failed at things doesn't mean that I, I think it was a fail different and I've learned from it and said, okay, I need to move on now. But only recently, have I been mindful of some of the mistakes I've made, why I maybe made those mistakes, and how to move forward from them and release myself from what would otherwise be potentially the shame in the failure.



(00:48:18):


So I guess it's some people think of positive affirmations as like, Oh, well, I'm just kind of tricking myself or it's blind optimism. When in reality, I think what it is, you created the story around you not being able to do something right. Or whatever your limiting beliefs might be. So it works both ways. You can create the story and the narrative the other way and show yourself, you know, why you are able to do something or, you know, I am X, I am Y and I guess when you do that enough it can have a really powerful effect on just the way that you operate and think on a daily basis.



(00:48:54):


Well, so, so the ones we did for my daughter, right, because what you're talking about is I put a video up and I was, I went through the affirmations with my daughter, you know, I'm timed. I'm brave. I'm what else was it? I'm kind, I'm brave. I'm confident. I'm beautiful. I'm grateful. I feel like I'm missing one and I can write I'm Mackenzie and I can't. And the thing about that is we did the same thing in our gym recently with our staff, you know, and we've done, we've done similar things without where they're online, coaching staff. And it's the idea of, can we really see these things if we're not these things? So my daughter's too, she doesn't know what those words mean. Right. But by the time she becomes five, six, seven, she will. And, and I don't have experience with a five, six, seven-year-old.



(00:49:42):

So I don't know how it's going to go when they get there. But what I do know is that maybe those words will change for him. Maybe she'll say, I'm not that I don't want to be that I'd rather use this word and fine. We'll plug it in there. But the idea is we can always come back to that because there are going to be bad days, right. There's going to be a day where everything goes wrong and she's going to come home. And she's going to say, this person picked on me, this person did that. Or, you know, I got a bad grade or I didn't meet this team, whatever it's going to be. And if we can go back to those words and say, well, are you brave? Yes, I'm brave. Okay. Well, then this is how we're going to deal with this.



(00:50:18):


Are you confident? Yes. Well then, you know, you can, right. So, and, and you know, this person told me that I'm ugly. Well, are you beautiful? Yes. Beautiful. Okay. Then, then we don't need to worry about what that person said. So the idea is for the end of the day, to always be able to come back to that, that list of things. That was the idea for my daughter, especially cause she's a young woman. And I know that it's, it's difficult for women in general, not, not to minimize what they do. In fact, I feel like I'm amplifying what they do because you know, I'm surrounded by some incredible women in my life who I'm inspired by. But something I heard that if that's not for you, I heard something really good on a Michael Jervey podcast. The, I think it's chasing excellence podcast, but he was interviewing him, retired Navy seal named David Goggins.



(00:51:07):


And this guy talked about the cookie jar he made for himself. Basically what he did is he's like I have these, you know, he used to have these mental battles with himself and he's like every once in a while we still have them. So he took a cookie jar and this, this is a big Mason jar. And he wrote it down on a bunch of note cards, things that he had done, that he was proud of things about him, that he was proud of. He wrote it down, folded it, and put it into the cookie jar. So he's got a cookie jar full of all these things that he's done, that he's proud of. And now I'm on bad days when he's feeling beat down. When he's feeling like the world is against him, he's like, I need to go eat a cookie. And he goes over to the cookie jar, pulls out one of the cookies and be like, I ran three, 200-mile races on back to back to back weekends.



(00:51:50):


That's pretty cool. Right? And he said you know what? That's not good enough. I need another cookie. He pulled another cookie out. And now you're talking to yourself and reminding yourself of how great you've done instead of thinking about how crappy things are in that moment. So that's a good thing I think people can do also. And our business coach gave us one more, a few more, but when you get home at the end of the day, a lot of people will say, what would I have done differently? Right. And, and I think that that typically if I asked you Misbah, but what would you have done differently today? You would think of something you did poorly and how you would have changed it. Right? So immediately we all go to this negative place of, well, I didn't do a good job of this. So I guess I could have done it like that instead.



(00:52:35):


And that would have been better. I know you're either happy and empowered by the opportunity to do it in the future, or you're that you did it wrong. Right. And you're hoping that opportunity comes back up. She told us when you get home at the end of the day, I want you to write down two things that you did that you're proud of. Two things you did that were great. Two things that were awesome that day. And then you're going to write one thing that if you could have done it all over again, you would have done differently. And how would you have done that? And then what'd you think maybe the outcome would have been right so that now you're not actually lamenting over poor behavior. You're, you're telling yourself I did a good job on these things and I could have done this thing better if I did it like this, but you're, you're setting yourself up in a positive light, to begin with. And it's just a totally different expression of the same question. Yeah. That's powerful stuff.



(00:53:26):


It's a lot of you know, getting into the way that you're wired and the way that you're programmed, the way that you think, and then getting out of your own way.


(00:53:36):


Yeah. And Michael Kashi from BridgeStreet is phenomenal at this. Also, I know he's working with Justin sewer on a mindset project actually, but you know, he's, he taught me a lot about vulnerability, which is, which is the idea of, you know, there's no, there's nothing bad that can come of any situation as long as you grow from it, but you have to be willing to have that bad come so that you can grow. And so that, that was, for me, that was huge. You sent me the book daring greatly by the Navy Brown. But I, I read some of the books. I'm not a huge reader. I gotta be honest with you. Yeah. But the idea of it resonated with me and we've talked about it like before.



(00:54:19):


Yeah. He and a D both when they were on the show, that's one book that they've recommended and it's quite powerful. Even if you don't read the whole book, just search up an interview with Bernie Brown. And I think she's done Ted talks. She's been on the chase Jarvis show. Just the discussion of the book and the concept, in general, could be really useful.


(00:54:38):


Yeah. Cool. Yeah. So to sum it up, there's no shame in being wrong and you have to be vulnerable enough to know that summed up. That's the bulk. Yeah.


(00:54:48):


Exactly. All right. So I want to jump cause I said, I would touch on this, the tendonitis concept. Right? Get a post, on this. Yeah. Tell us a little bit about tendonitis. Tendinosis if things start to feel better as you warm up and as you progress throughout your workout, you were saying that that is not tendonitis, right.


(00:55:08):


Likely 10 tonight. So we have to put that caveat out there that it's there's no, if a then B there's no, always there's no never, right. Yeah. Right. But so tendinitis the term itis, I don't know what that's, what does that whatever, adding IDs to the end of a word, the English majors can tell us what that is. I'm sure drew can of Vero can tell us what that is. But it means inflammatory. It means inflamed. So what we know about inflammation is that the best way to allow them information to go away is to rest, right? There's the constant back and forth about ice heat, to compress, not to compress. I don't want to go down that road because there's evidence to all of it that all works. And none of it works. So you do, you do what works for you, right.



(00:56:00):


But we all know that rest does work for them. And that the more work you do, right? If we exercise in nature's inflammatory low-level right but increased blood flow, we are left with torn-down muscles that need to be repaired. The way we repair them is with inflammation. So there's mild inflammation following a workout. If you're already inflamed to begin and you, and that's what's causing your pain. I know you add information to that. All of a sudden you're going to be in more pain. And as the workout goes on, you don't add last, you add more. So you're adding more and more and more inflammation to an inflamed area. It's going to become more and more painful. But so many people have the opposite experience where their doctor has told them they have tendonitis, so you need to rest it. And then they go work out because they're like, I'm listening to that Schmoe.



(00:56:53):


So they go work out, maybe wisely, maybe unwisely. And they're like, you know, the first five or six reps, it really hurts. But by the time I'm done with the warm-up, it's feeling okay, halfway into the workout, I've forgotten about it. And I don't get paid again until I get home like an hour after my workout. So I'm going to keep working out because if anything, it makes me feel better. It's unlikely that those people are dealing with an inflammatory condition. It's just not likely because they're creating inflammation as they work out in the information's not causing them pain. All right. So what's more likely is that they're dealing with an OSIS or degenerative condition, because if you can picture what an OSIS is, you know, we're looking at attended, right? So tendons connect muscles to bone, some physiology of attendance. They do not stretch, right?



(00:57:40):


So you cannot stretch a tendon. There's no reason to mash it. There's no reason to smash it to bandit to pull it. It's not going to stretch. Right. The only way to tendons changes their form is by being loaded. So the way a tendon is loading, as we load the muscle that the 10 minutes attached to, and we move the joints that the tending crosses. Okay. Got it. So when we're looking to change the way he attended his form, the way attended looks, well, we need to do is essentially right. I am, concentrically spend time under tension with that tendon. We need to spend time where we're saying, okay, we're going to load this through movement, range of motion. And we're going to load it out of that range of motion over time, because the body will say, okay, I need to regenerate this tendon in a different way. So it functions more effectively. If we're going to be doing that activity.



(00:58:40):


What are some common areas? I'm assuming, you know, the elbow and the shoulder, like what are some common areas that you could make this a little more practical for people, if they think they're experiencing, tend to note tendonitis in this area?


(00:58:54):


So the knee is probably the best example because I have a great exercise for people who are dealing with that. So if you're dealing with knee tendon OSIS, right, or you've come off of knee tendonitis, now it's just a weak knee. And you're worried about coming back. There's a really good protocol called heavy, slow resistance training that actually was taught to me by one of our staff members named Ray Gorman, who owns a company called the gage movement out of Reno, Nevada and heavy, slow is basically you would be squatting right to a box or to a target that is not full range of motion. So just above for range of motion, or as far as it's tolerable, but absolutely not below parallel. And that does not mean by the way that I don't promote below parallel squatting. I'm absolutely all about squatting to full depth for this particular protocol.



(00:59:43):


We don't squat to depth. However, so we stopped just below. We get just above parallel and the East-centric phase. So the lowering phase is a four-second phase, you know, Mississippi, one, Mississippi, two, Mississippi, three, Mississippi, four, we tap. And then we turn around and the up phase is a three Mississippi. So Mississippi one, Mississippi two, Mississippi three. So each rep should take about seven to seven and a half seconds. The load on the bar should be an eight out of 10 at a rate of perceived exertion, right? So that's a different way for everybody. It's a different way to every week. The pain scale that we're allowed to deal with is you are allowed to experience pain. Doing this, provided that the pain stays less than a five out of 10. This is absolutely the hardest part of this thing to measure. Because for some people, a five is excruciating people and five is like a paper cut.



(01:00:47):


I got a paper cut last week. It sucked. But so, so the idea that I give people is if the pain is getting worse from rep to rep, or if it becomes intolerable, stop there. If the pain is plateaued, it's staying where it's at, then stay right there. And it's a 12-week protocol. People think this is a fast thing that they're going to get rid of by smashing icing, banding, whatever. It's not, it takes a long time to change this stuff. You can exercise during it, but you know, stuff like the assault bike is awful for new tendonitis or tendinosis any of that rhythmic like over and over again, flexing extension flection extension. It's going to be bad for the attendant. So the first week of this exercise, we're going to do two to three bouts. Have you slow resistance, 15 reps, three sets, always an eight and a 10 RPE by the last three or four reps of the set.



(01:01:44):


And we continue to accelerate that protocol to the point that every week the weight is getting heavier, the weights are, the reps are getting lower and the sets are getting higher. So I'm actually pulling up cause they don't have it memorized for you fully. I'm pulling up for you exactly what the protocol is like. Give me one second here. So week one, right? And these are, these are considered tendinopathy. Progressions are going to be three sets of 15. We two as three sets of 15 weeks three is three sets of 1200. And over they're all an RPE of eight, which means the way it has to be going up to stay there. If you're acclimating. Right? Right. We forced three sets of 12. We'd five is four sets of 10 weeks. Six is four sets of 10. We seven and eight are four sets of eight. And the next four weeks, nine, 10, 11, and 12, were all four sets of six reps. Okay. So the idea is that you're doing this two to three times per week, and it's always eight out of 10 on the RPE and less than, and less than a five on the pain scale. That's a great way to recover from a tendon issue if it's not inflammatory and getting worse from the trip.



(01:02:54):


Right. Wow. Okay. Yeah. That's good stuff. That's something actionable that people could mess around with right away.


(01:03:01):


Yeah. It's, it's, it's great. And the thing about it though, too, to be mindful of, if you're, if you're a coach in this to an athlete or an athlete, trying to for yourself is it's one thing in your puzzle, right? It's not like, Oh, great. I heard this thing from Dr. Sean, I miss biz airborne mind podcast. I'm going to do it. And I'm going to be great if you're sleeping for hours and I don't care what you add. Yeah. Right. If your diet sucks, I don't care. What you add. This is, this is one piece of everything else in your diet and your sleep and your stress and your behavior and your programming is perfect. Adding, this might be the thing you need, but to add this and say, great, I'm going to fix myself because I got this thing from Dr. Shawn nonsense. You're, you're not, you're just not right. It's all connected. Yeah.



(01:03:52):


Cool. I don't think I asked you this version of the rapid-fire question last time you were on. But I really love hearing people's responses to this. So let's say that you had a billion dollars, a couple of billion dollars actually, and you had a staff of 40 people and these 40 people were the top performers in whatever craft it is that you recruited them for. And you want to use this to make some type of change or impact, what would you do with it?



(01:04:18):


So I have 40 people, I have billions, some dollars and I want to use these people to create a change or an impact. What would I do with it? Is that the question? Yeah. are these people organized, in other words, do I have a hierarchy of what their roles are? Okay.


(01:04:34):


Oh, man. Yes. You, you can, you know, these are the top performers in whatever it is that you've gotten them for.


(01:04:42):


I think what I would do is I would ask them what we wanted to change as a group. I would, I would provide direction. But you mentioned Simon Sinek, start with why earlier? I don't know if that was during the pre-show or during the show, but he also talks about, you know, leaders talk, lacks leaders eat last. So I would ask my 40 people what they think we should do, what problem we should solve, and then weigh out the, which problem can we be more effective with using the resources that we have at our disposal? What's the plan and let's do it. That's the new me. That's the new me, by the way. That's, that's the Jeremy Todd influenced me. The old me would say, I want to fix childhood obesity. And I would deploy my, my staff, in such a way that we were able to do it. And I would put my money here and I put my money there. And that is the old Sean past. You just dragging people along. So the new me would make sure that they were inspired by the task at hand.



(01:05:46):


That's really powerful. Awesome, man. So you have a podcast coming out soon, which I'm pretty excited to tap into. Could you give us a sneak peek on, you know, the direction that you're kind of going with it when it comes out? Any details you could provide for us?


(01:06:01):


Yeah. I'm pumped about the podcast because it's, it's, it's kind of a, for me, it's a manifestation of my own evolution, if that makes sense, right? Yeah. I wasn't, I wasn't emotionally or mentally capable of producing this podcast a year ago. Even though if you asked me a year ago, are you capable of doing this? You'd be like. Yeah, I'm capable. Yeah. Let's do it. But I wasn't, you know, I wasn't a good enough listener. I wasn't good enough to ask her. I wasn't good enough anything to be valuable to people in a podcast forum. I thought it was okay that people would be like, some people liked me off the bat, but some people did. And I was like, well, that's their problem. No, it's my problem. I have to do a better job of that. So long story short the podcast as it's planned right now, excuse me, it's going to be three days a week, Monday monologues, where I'm going to talk about stuff that I think is helpful for people.



(01:07:00):


Like one of the ones I've already recorded is you have a disc injury. What does that mean? Right. one of the ones that I've recorded is you told your doctor that you want to be out of back pain. So he told you to stop running and you're upset about it, whose fault is that right? Is it yours for saying, I want it to be a pain or the doctor for getting you out of pain, but taking away what you love? And, and what do you do about it? And then Wednesdays are going to be Wednesday-wise, where we're basically going to let people ask us questions. I'm going to call those people and answer their questions on the show. So it won't be live, but it'll be, you know, real conversations on edited conversations where people will be able to ask questions.



(01:07:40):


Hopefully, I won't end up getting stumped on anybody, but if I do again, you'll hear, I don't know from me. Those I'd expect to be anywhere from 10 to 20 minutes long. And then on Fridays is gonna be five days with friends where I'm interviewing people who are influential, who I think people need to hear more from and talk to them about their process, about their mission, about their drive and, and hopefully educate people and influence, people, to understand that they don't have to have everything now. And most of the people who they think are overnight successes two years to even what success looks like.



(01:08:16):


Yeah. That's powerful stuff. And it's what you were saying about essentially we were talking about growth, right? Like you feel like you're at a point now where you're ready to take this on, but it's also something, once you take it on and you're, let's say 30, 40, 50 episodes deep, it is a very cool thing for you and the listeners to be able to watch your growth episode to episode to episode. And I guess it's the same thing with maybe blogging or Instagram, whatever, like, there's this record of something you were thinking, something you were feeling that's out there and you can watch that grow over time, but for some reason with a podcast I don't know. I feel like it's a little more intimate and you can get to know, you know, the guests better. You can get to know the host better. And so even when we look at maybe the first episode, you were on episode 10 to 11, all the way to now, you know, we've learned a lot experienced a lot in that time. So it's just a very, very, cool concept to me. I'm excited that you're going to be a part of it.



(01:09:13):


Yeah. But I'm excited and a little bit nervous at the same time too because I'm, I have a tendency of really enjoying the chase. I really enjoy the chase. It's almost unhealthy how much I enjoy the chase. And then when I catch it, sometimes I'm like, all right, well, what's cool. What am I going to chase next? Right. So I need to be cognizant of myself that, you know, there's a constant chase in the podcast world as well, where it's, you know, how are you going to get better? The chase is to improve. The chase is to get, you know, more interesting information out of the same guests. My, my hope is that I can go back and have all the same guests on a year later and have people would be like, wow, that was a really cool interview. Or maybe the first time they thought it was cool, but now they're like, wow, that was really cool. So that's, that's where I'm hoping to be able to go with that. And it's the same thing with our seminars. That's how we, our workshops are exactly the same. We've our first workshop is two hours long for 10 bucks, a person or 20 bucks, a person at the CrossFit gym for 11 people know that that's changed.



(01:10:22):


Right? Yeah. It's a man. It's, it's some good stuff, especially, I feel like in the podcast world, like it's still new, you know, it's still fairly new, not everybody is listening to podcasts. There's so much art that is left to be explored. And you're kind of doing it with that, you know, Monday monologue, Wednesday, why, and like these different ways to make it a little bit more interesting for listeners. So it's going to be really cool to watch. Tell me a little bit about the shoulders program that you have coming out for coaches to get everybody ready for Murph.



(01:10:54):


Well, so it's, it's, it's less a shoulders programming. It's more a construct that happens to be focused on the shoulders. Right? So how we, we kind of feel like our calling now is to move towards educating coaches and we're, we're, that doesn't mean we're going to stop working with athletes. It just means that we get a lot of higher-level questions from people that we enjoy answering. And we figure what's the best way to make ourselves obsolete because someone else is trying to do it, right? Yeah. It's, it makes it, some of the coaches and the doctors don't need us. The athletes don't need us right at the athletes don't need us. It's because their coaches know doctors and figured it out. Why don't we just help them figure it out? Right. but so, to cut to the chase on your question we are teaching coaches how to build shoulder resiliency right now for athletes in their gyms.



(01:11:48):


So that when Murph comes along and they're asked to do a hundred pull-ups, whether it's on a band or not, that's a lot of pull-ups in between 200, push-ups 300 air squats, and two miles of running with a vest in some cases. But if he can't do a pull-up and you're wearing a fester, you're misguided. But, but the point is we, you know too often people think the way I'm going to get more pull-ups is by doing more pull-ups and that's just not true, right? You're going to get more polyps by having healthier shoulders, right? So we're helping people to build healthier shoulders while they develop more and better pull-ups and leaving the skill portion of it to the coaches. But we're educating the curves on how to know who, what, where, why, and when in their program. So our coach program is ongoing, but what we do is every month we try to have a new focus so that it stays fresh for people.



(01:12:38):


The depth of knowledge it's in the coaches program is really deep. I mean, I have immense respect for Dr. Jeremy for putting it together. It is, it is incredible. I mean, to the point of, you know, someone in your gym doesn't have double unders why not? Right. They've been there. They've been there for six months. Why don't they have double unders or they're not, again, that they're not a coachable thing comes up, right? Or they're, or they're not athletic enough. No, that's. Are there, are they strong enough to hold themselves in their tippy-toes for 30 seconds? No. Then what makes you think they're strong enough to try and double unders right. Can they hop in place for a minute without a rope? No, they can't even do that in rhythm. Then they're not going to be able to do double unders strip away the skill, build the foundation, develop the athlete, right. Develop the purse. So that's the point of our coaches program from beginning to end.



(01:13:37):


Yeah. And, and you know, that those concepts go well beyond just the Murph workout and that can be carried throughout, you know, well into the rest of the year, right?


(01:13:46):


Yeah. We're having a workshop coming up in April 22nd, 23rd of this year. I don't know if this is going to air before or after that, but we put on the application process. Right. Because we're like, you know what, we're tired of, not tired. It's the wrong way to put it, but it's, it's straining and dreaming to go out and just putting the knowledge out and putting information out and then have people use it the wrong way. Even though they're trying to use it the best way. So like, let's have a workshop where we bring in some of the best coaches in the world and teach them how to do this. So we bounced around ideas. How do we, how do we make sure that the best coaches in the world make it expensive? You know, what do you do? And we set off screw the expense. Cause it's really not about the money.



(01:14:28):


It's about teaching the skills and about making fitness better. So is that for 20 bucks, 20 bucks is your application fee is your registration fee because people just won't know, show as high of a rate if they're going to lose 20 bucks for not showing it. Right. so we put out an application, he said, we're looking for the 50 best coaches in the world to come to learn how to assess movement. And we're going to go through a sliver of what we do, but we're going to go through that sliver as deep as the sliver goes. And we had over 125 coaches apply in 24 hours. So now we have, we have 60 coaches coming from five different countries. And I want to say 19 States all flying out to Island Park, New York, this little town in New York, you know, next to long beach where I live to learn how to assess an ankle, a knee hip, a little back from coaches, a shoulder, you know, from a coach's perspective, through a doctor's direction.



(01:15:33):


Wow. And it's cool because now those people are going to go back and impact their athletes. Oh, you, every time you squat, you come up onto your toes. Oh, it's gotta be, you know, your ankles are immobile. Maybe not. Maybe what if it's not? What if, what if your mind is blown and on athletes, ankles move great. Now, what are you going to do? This is now throwing a weight under their heel is. It's irresponsible, it's negligible, you know, better now what? Right. So that's the that's, what's exciting for us is just changing the way people think altogether.



(01:16:06):


Yeah. And so I went through the coaches program for the lower body assessments and I, you know, part of the homework that we had was to actually assess people and get in the game, then go back, watch the videos and just do that back and forth. And when I put that, you know, out there in our little Facebook group for our gym, the responses were just amazing. Like everybody wants to get assessed. Like it got to a point where it was like out of control. And it was really enlightening for people to see like, Oh wow, this whole time. I thought my, you know, hips were the issue, but really it's my left ankle. And it went so deep as like if you feel the tension in the back of your ankle, there's a certain protocol to follow. If you felt the tension in the front, there's a certain protocol to follow. And that level of depth, I think that members and your clients really appreciate that. You know, when you do your homework and you can understand things on a deep level and, you know, curate it to them in that way. It's, it's another way to build that level of trust.



(01:17:04):


I mean, that's, to me, this coaching program is our legacy. You know, there's there, there's something else that eventually going to be our legacy after this coaching program. I, I understand that I'm not, I'm not, I'm not ignorant enough to believe that this will be the best thing that we ever do, but it will be the best thing we've done. Yeah. Right. so we wanted it to be something that was profoundly helpful, that it wasn't a little itty-bitty, you know, a little bit of help here, a little bit out there. We wanted it to be thought through and thorough and helpful for people and actionable.



(01:17:41):


Right. Absolutely. Are you going to be opening up are you going to just go to be doing this one again, where you take on another group of 50 coaches at some point in the future?


(01:17:52):


Absolutely. Okay. You know, it's, it's, it's we didn't know if we would or not. Because we didn't know what the turnout was going to be. You know, we, we put out an application process and like, who's going to apply like really who's, you know what, like what do we get? 25 people just stupid. And, and in the beginning, he was like, yeah, I got four emails the first night, like, ah, sucks. By the time I woke up, I had over 80. Wow. The, by the time lunch hit, I had, I had 120 and I was like, turn it off, turn it off, turn off the link. I don't even know how to, I don't know how to go through these. I didn't really think through it to the point that all these people would want to come. So I turned it off.



(01:18:34):


And yeah, I mean, I think we'll do it again. We have, we have some interest in places to do it, but this has been an undertaking. I mean, we're flying, we're flying out for our coaches to help us with this. We are, there should be something like an eight to one to 10 to one at the coach to staff ratio. So that you'll get a lot of attention and we're running it like an event, like a, like a fit. I got like a competition, you know, you show up, you're going to be at group one lane one, and you're either a coach or you're a judge and you started this time. I get it's, it's gonna, it's gonna be run like an event. We're gonna have a registration staff. And it's all, because there'll be some unexpected loving there. We want people to show up and be like, wow, I would've paid $2,000 for this. Right. And I only paid 20. I better do this thing, justice when I go home. So when it's over Jeremy and I will sit down gaze into each other's eyes, decide if we want to do it again. But we love it. So I don't see any reason why we wouldn't. It's just, it won't be any time in the next month or two. It'll probably be over the summer after the games. I would bet.


(01:19:53):


Okay. All right. That's really exciting, man. I'm excited for you and good luck with everything. I want to be respectful of your time. So what should a coach or athlete take away from this podcast? Touch on


(01:20:08):


So much? Yeah. I honestly think as much as I wish that I could say the most important thing we talked about was something technical, you know, like a skill to develop or a, a lift that we talk about doing more of one assessment that we would teach. I think it's intentionally building trust. I think that's the most important thing that we talk about. So I'll give you, I'll give you guys an activity for those of you who stuck around to the end, because I think you deserve it, right? So this is an activity that we do with our staff. At the end of every staff meeting, I asked them to rate the staff, meaning one to five, right? One being, it was terrible. I want you to tell me why it was terrible. What did we not accomplish five beings? It was, it was, it was perfect.


(01:20:47):


Tell me what was perfect about it. I want you guys to rate yourselves one to five and all four categories. So when you look at yourself and be honest, be objective and be vulnerable, be willing to tell yourself you suck. I get that but don't be hard on yourself. Either. Give yourself credit where it's due. Right? Rate yourself on a scale of one to five. How high is your propriety? Right. Do you look at the part all the time? If I saw you the morning after whatever the event, the night before was, if I saw you the morning after it brunch, what I be motivated to refer my friend to you? And when my friend would be motivated to come to you one to five at your worst, how good are you? Ask yourself on a scale of credibility, one to five, how deep is your knowledge and the subject matter that you're teaching and how well do you portray it?



(01:21:48):


One to five and 10 yourself. Why am I not good at these things? Why am I closer to a woman to a five? What are the things that I need to improve on the most? Right? Or I'm a five. This is why I'm a five commonality. How good are you at finding it and discussing it with people and basking in it, enjoying it one to five, right? And then intent one to five. How well do people understand that you're there for them instead of being there for yourself? And that is, it goes so deep to somebody like me having to actually talk the lower two have better intent, right? It goes to me having to break eye contact with people intentionally because they're uncomfortable with the amount of intense eye contact that I make in live conversation in person. So it's empathetic for me to bring it from time to time.



(01:22:39):


How good is your intent, right. On a scale of one to five, once you have those four ratings ask yourself. Okay. Which one was my worst one? Which one was my best one for my worst one? What can I do to improve it actionable day to day? Does it measure it? No, I'm improving it for my best one. Cool. Can I help? Who's not as good at this. Right. And also seek out someone who is really good at what you're worst at and just be with them. Just don't even ask them for help. Just be with them. They're going to rub off on you. Right. You're not going to be the guy who's burping and farting. If everyone around you has them together.



(01:23:28):


All right. It's funny.


(01:23:31):


Yeah. You know, the person who spends all their time with five millionaires does not stay poor for a long time. So that, that, that would be my biggest takeaway from this meeting.


(01:23:44):


Love that, man. Yeah. I'm excited for people to dig into that and you know, uncover some of the limiting beliefs and, and just kind of get to know yourself better. And cause that's the more you can get to know yourself better and know how you're wired, how you're programmed, where your limits are, where you can improve. That's where the breakthroughs happen and how and how you can show up for other people and how well that you can help them. So I appreciate you giving us that exercise. Okay.


(01:24:10):


I love that exercise. I was asked to do it and I've asked my staff to do it. And it's, it's been phenomenal.


(01:24:16):


Awesome, man. So how can we support you? Where can we point people to yeah, let us know? Where can we find you?


(01:24:23):


If you're a coach and you really want to take your knowledge to the next level, head to performance care, rx.com, performance care, rx.com, and click on the coach, get on the coaching program. It, I don't toot our own horn, right? It's easy for me to toot my horn on this one because I didn't have that much to do with it. I had the idea for it and Jeremy has executed the out of it. There is no better education system on the market today for coaches to be better coaches than our online coach program, stamping anybody who listens to this, right. Well, we can do Ms. Boss. We can, we can get you a, a coupon code for, you know, Dakota will be airborne. Okay. So you can put that in the show notes, but a, I R B O R N E. Right? Yup. Code is airborne.



(01:25:13):


I'll make sure we get that drawn up today. Anybody who listens to this, who's a coach who wants to try our coach program, use the coupon code airborne. We'll give you 10% off. And if after the first month, you're not a hundred percent satisfied that you're like, this is the best thing I've ever done. Cancel. And I'll give you your money back, right? So you get to keep the knowledge. You get to keep the assessments that we taught you and you get to keep your money because we don't want your money. If we didn't bring you the value. So that's something people can start doing, right? If you're an athlete, it's the same website, performance care rx.com and you just click athlete. And we have a bunch of tools on there for athletes to follow us on Instagram, active life, RX, Facebook, active life RX.



(01:25:58):


And tell us what you love and hate about us. You know, the, the way we improve is we hear the, and the bad, right. We try to do more of the good, less than the bed, or are we telling people we don't like it to shove it depending on what it is. Yeah. How about YouTube? Yeah. Yeah. Good call. Super clear. It would kill me. We have a YouTube channel. So youtube.com/the active life. I have not figured out how to hack the YouTube algorithm yet. So we're still somewhere around 2000 subscribers and, you know, a hundred thousand views or something. But I would love for that to go cause all of our, there's nothing really that we post anywhere. That's not already on YouTube for free. It's just it's we, we haven't curated it. So head on there and learn.


(01:26:41):


Awesome, man, once again, I appreciate you taking the time to you know, drop some knowledge and make some light bulbs go off for us.


(01:26:48):


No problem. I hope the light bulbs went on.


(01:26:51):


Thanks, man. You're welcome. My pleasure. Thank you so much for listening guys. I know you're probably driving right now. We're probably eating, cooking, working out. You're doing something else, but make sure you head over to the airborne mind.com, check out some of the free coaching videos, warmups, guides, checklists, all the things that you can use to make the best use out of your training time. If you enjoy this episode, please leave a review on iTunes and let me know what you think I love hearing from you guys. And it would really help me out so I can continue creating awesome stuff for you. And remember the greatest compliment you can give is by sharing it with somebody else who might enjoy it or somewhere on the web. So once again, thank you so much for being a listener and supporting the show until next time.


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